Comments for Cat Box 5

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Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos   Copyright© 2000. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

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B1: Submit
Date: Friday, September 29, 2000

S1

Dear Dr Irene, Trubble and the rest of the Cat Box Family,

First off, Welcome back AngryGirl.

I've read and re read the posts but will probably still miss something. As Lynn explained I had to fix a neighbors plumbing today, actually it has taken me three days. If there is any plumbing harder to work on than a mobile homes, I haven't come across it yet. And I used to have to work with the old lead and galvanized pipe. So Becky I even take some time with repairs. Luckily this wasn't longer than our time limit 9 months.

I am sorry that Steve decided to call it quits here, because another males perspective is quiet interesting, although I don't agree that we were vultures waiting to pick his bones. I must admit that I got very touchy about criticism also probably because I grew up with it, but thanks to all here I am learning to accept it, I may not agree with it but I do accept it.

I have to interject here, that after reading Steve's comments, it reminded me of someone I have become very close to. As a matter of fact, she is sitting here playing tug of war with the dog. I say this with Love, because it's a fact. In case you haven't figured it's Lynn.

I can relate to both Steve and Becky's H because I acted the very same way, although I don't view relationships as a competition. It is very hard to convince someone that you mean that you will try to change, especially when you have said it before after an argument. I do differ from your husband Becky, in that I never felt or told Lynn that I was more depressed or ill than she. I would tell her that she didn't have to feel that way because........

I was browbeating her into feeling the way that I felt.

To AK,

Please don't give up on Steve as I feel from reading your posts that the both of you have something to give each other, not the heartache that you each must be feeling now, but possibly a good life together. I would hope that Steve comes back into the group, even with his feelings of being ganged up on, as I really would like to hear his side, as well as his ideas on just what he needs to be.

I read his post to Lynn about his children, his X and his feelings for you, and of himself. I am glad to see that he feels that his children are seeing the real him and you rather than what they are told by someone else. I know that they will be scarred by this experience but he can help heal the scars by being himself. I base this on experience with my daughter, she still is not as communicative with us as I would like but there is communication. I'm sure that he loves you as sure as my love for Lynn and her love for me. There have been times the last few years when I questioned this fact, but since we both have been posting here, we are saying I Love You before I go to sleep at night again. I don't have to say it first, and Lynn doesn't have to say it first, but we both say it, as we did when we were first together and before our distressing time happened.

I first posted this site, as you will remember expecting a bashing, much as Steve feels that he is getting (from his posts) and am glad that everyone has shown the sympathy and understanding that you all have. I was pleasantly surprised, and am very grateful for all the input. All we want is for each person to be human: being the best we can be, mistakes and all... I hope Steve comes back.

To AngryGirl,

Isn't it funny how once associated with something or someone, you are atomically placed into that category. Cheech and Chong made great satire movies about drugs and have been associated with it since. They probably did do drugs, as did everyone of that time period. I have seen some gigantic joints, but nothing that would compare with the ones in their movies.

I understand what you mean though by using them as a reference. I'm proud of you for not going along with the crowd (so to speak). The term when I was your age was Heads. I do have a question if you would be so kind, your signature is :P Are you sticking your tongue out? If so, I'm jealous as I can't think of a special sign for me. SOS

To Becky,

I hope that your dinner is what you want, and please don't tell me that you went to Ronalds'. Kitchen cabinets should be easy, if your H doesn't get a headache:) I'd do them over mobile home plumbing any day.

To Lynn,

I Love You, and no I don't know who I am, Yet! Bud Light Long Neck.

Trubble, How about Dolly Varden?

I gave my employee a supervisors rating form to fill out, and when he was done, he told me that he couldn't rate me with the highest rating because there is always room for improvement.  So True.

Hugs and best wishes,

Dan  Hi Daddy.

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

Last post for me tonight,

Lynn here,

I think the cyber thingies are watching to much Cheech and Chong or else into the spirits (alcoholic, that is). Dan reads the posts, and then there are more posts that weren't there before and then some that get here go bye-bye.

I like this Steve. Dr. Irene said she was going to take a break and we all had her g-o-n-e. Now you, too. I have a sneaking suspicion you are still here because I can't believe you are going to give ask two questions and then not come back and see if I answered you. Even if it's silent, send me a sign.

I we are confusing here, I mean Dan and I, not collectively, I asked Steve in an earlier post about himself. Then I asked David in Buddha. Then I said to Dan, I know all this stuff about you already, but who are you? So he kicked into I used to be a bartender and he was Bud Lite Long Neck! AngryGirl got it somewhere between Confessions and Buddha. Tough question. Singular. Then Dan and I got silly and were remembering when and how we met. Spent the night dancing to "Touch Me When We're Dancing."

Back to who is he? I know who I think he is, he knows who he thinks I am. I don't even mean we have to post it. I'm interested. Can any of us answer that in one paragraph with no references to booze or other people? Becky, this will be homework for when I'm on vacation. I even asked Dr. Irene for this, just a brief dust jacket blurb.

Don't know who started this train of thought, but I like it. OK, Doc, it's just for Trubble, not for you.

I had a thought today and I know where this came from. Steve and AK both told of wishes. Really, really........ I wish I had enough money to buy this big 3 story Victorian House here in Transylvania and gather every stray cat and get them fixed and ...... gee, that's all.  Uhhh... Don't worry about the fixing part...

AngryGirl, I hear what you are saying about the drugs. Knew a few from the bar days and Dan's brother got into them. So sad. Tough for me to know a lot about. I'm older than Dan and joints were a place where we sold beer. Stoned was when someone drank to much of it and I never heard the term heads until my daughter was a teenager. She went for the jocks. I've seen a few people who couldn't relate to a thing because of.... The senior citizen in me thinks that is not a good place and I think you are making a good choice not to be there either. Steve and I are drinking ginger ale in our barroom conversation. Saw the effects of that, too.

Very reflective day and it is going to take me a few days to think out some of these conversations..... I'm going to need a vacation...Oh, I'm taking one. Isn't this great. My oldest grandson and I are going to go to a pro football game, visit some family, tourist for a week and then I'm taking him home and going to stay there and visit for another week. Coming Trubble or are you going to stick around for Dolly Varden?

Here's a thought Dr. Irene, I'll take some of my excess baggage and leave it somewhere. Giggle!

Well guys, Happy Trails and it sounds like the cat box is full again and to AngryGirl, Yes, isn't it funny, I came here for support and strength to GO and now I cant imagine why I would ever want to leave. One of these little twists of life, I guess. You are right though, it does take two.

(((HUGS)))

Love, Prayers, Serenity, Peace and don't forget the Laughter,  

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

Angrygirl

Nice to hear from you.

I agree with your ideas on feminism. Funny word though. Manism or Malism wouldn't sound right would it?

:)

AK   Menism?

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

Hi all.

This is a can't sleep posting..

I know Steve is feeling really awful right now.

Though I know now that my own healthy boundaries are what will keep me "safe", I don't want Steve to beat himself up over any of what he's done or said. I'm okay. I can deal with it. I'm getting the tools and the information I need to take good care of myself. Just know Steve, that I will be okay. I know it's *my* job to take care of me and I'm a pretty quick learner.

I think some thing(s) happened to Steve along the way to make him feel like a bad person. Steve isn't a bad person. Steve is the one who thinks so the most, even though he probably feels like everyone in the world thinks so too. Steve is a good person, with some bad behaviors, which can be changed, although right now he may not understand how. Have faith Steve. Help will come when you are ready to seek it.

Everyone on this board has been really understanding to Steve, as I think he will be able to see sometime soon, even though it feels to him like he is being chastised. But once the yukky parts of our life are "exposed", then we can do something about them. You bet! It is harder to hide from them. I don't think Steve really knows what to do, because he feels that his behaviors reflect his worth as a person. All I know is that everyone has their story, and that we *create* our own worth.

It's funny, but my posting to the wrong section several times is something that I would have been really embarrassed about earlier in my life. But now my reaction is "oh well, now they know I'm not perfect". Yep. I think in general it's quite reassuring to find out that others aren't perfect. But the point is if any feelings of embarrassment or shame come up, I've learned to quickly drop them and forgive myself. I'm sure that at one time this kind of thing was not natural to me, but it is now. So any negative pattern can be changed, in my view, if the person is truly motivated to change and can find the appropriate tools.

I know that Steve's pain hurts Steve more than he could possibly ever hurt anyone else. Yeah... Himself first and you second... cuz you love him...

Steve whatever mistakes you made, whatever it was that made you feel like you were "bad", you don't have to go on punishing yourself. Everyone here knows you're not bad. No-one turned against you after reading your posts, even though some of them were clearly "mis-behaviors". Maybe if you let out your inner demons, they won't threaten you anymore. 

There. I feel better now. And I'll go back to focusing on *me* now. :)  You've got to. Not only for your sake, but for Steve's...

AK

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

Dear Group,

This is Lynn. I hope you are good today. I just got out of bed. I'm sorry you couldn't sleep well last night, AK. AK, you and Steve sound so much like Dan and I, except we later reversed the roles. I can understand Steve's posts. I sounded just like him and then Dan started sounding like you. I think your love for each other is true and deep. This sounds like the gypsy witch fortune telling, but there will come a time where you two are going to have to let it go or get it together. I can see the hurt you are both going through. So sad, because I do see both sides. Guess because I've been there. Both sides, I mean. I do know though AK, that you can not change Steve. I was examining "ME" last night. Other than I dislike junk food about #1 on my list is I am a survivor. I suspect Steve is, too. That's where I got out of whack with our old therapist. Crazy thinking now, but she was a good therapist. I think maybe she was doing too much. First Dan was her client. Then she saw me. Then she saw Dan again and then she would see us and then Dan. I wonder in retrospect if we would have been better off with different therapists? I think it depends. I work much better with both people. More info that way. I got lost in Dan there somewhere. So unlike me. When I undid that I kicked into waaaay the other direction. Remember. I learned from my mother that daddy was forgiven and all was forgotten. I always swore I'd never be like that! I like it out in the open. I use to fight some of my mothers battles for her. The role of codependent doesn't suit me. I went way far the other direction. I also said I liked Dan the best when he was shouting 4 letter words at me. It wasn't the 4 letter words, it was the authority in his voice. I hate to see those I love down, groveling or beating themselves up. As if my beating them up more will kick them out of it?? Look at the $500 gambling spree. I think I would have been elated if Dan got angry with me! He didn't. I did a lot to get him mad. Good honest anger is healthy I think. Then we can clear the air and go on.

This started to be a note and I got carried away with #1: Lynn the survivor. I think this is why I had such a tough time with my friends suicide, too. It went against all my survival instincts.

Here's another one for the books. Dan is not my first husband. He's way down the list of. I think if I don't work this out with me I could/would carry this on to another relationship. See G, I heard you. And AngryGirl, I hear you, too. Dan and I got off to a strange start. I often joke that Dan seduced me and took me home to bed and that was our first and last date. A bit of an exaggeration there, but not a lot. There were a lot of sparks and then we got down to the nitty gritty of day to day living. Backwards! Yet we've been together 12 years!  We know the truth: he beat you at pool and you couldn't stand it!

Ok, that's Lynn the survivor story briefly.

Hi the rest. Becky, I hope you have a great weekend. Sounds like fun. I've often thought with the remodeling that I should have left the house as it was and just painted and wallpapered. That's one of the "me's", too. I like to do my nest my way. That's one of the reasons, too why I'm so glad I don't have to work. Dan and I are both good employees. One in the family is enough. He's slowing down a bit there. He's taking Thursday off to drive me to the airport. :) Hi Becky too.

Steve, Your silence is louder than your words. (To me)

Trubble, Your Transylvania cousins caught and wounded a bird here and Dan put him in a cage in my bathroom. I told them no-no. I know it's natural, but I don't have to like it! No salmon for them. I get the same stuff here. Once I brought her a nice mouse I caught as a gift. All she did was shriek and slam the door. Geez...

Dr. Irene, I spent the day yesterday at the cat box and I feel like I'm suffering from jet lag today. I need to de stress too. I hear you loud and clear now. I have no control over Steve and AK, Becky and H, or Dan and Lynn (or David, Angry, etc.) Just Lynn. Kinda like the message is: Lynn, Clean it up or get out of the cat box? For all of us...

With those words of wisdom I have to go pack...........

I Love You all, Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

AnryGirl, AK and Doc,

I hope the boards don't take on a life of their own again today. I posted "mannerisms" and it went somewhere to show up somewhere else someday. It just occurred to me that maybe it's not just me editing and saving that loses messages. It may be if two people are posting at the same time too...

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

Lynn here,

I just posted to Buddha and submitted it 3 times and it is MIA, too. Until it shows up on the boards I haven't found a way to save it. Yet if I keep going back it is there, so I'm going to stay here for a while and then go back and see if it's on.

I'm thinking of yesterday. I was really addicted to to staying on board. Just for the record, I think this is a healthier addiction than drinking. We are someday going to have to get un-addicted to this, too. As are Dan and I with the cigs. And thank you ALL for the no lectures. WE KNOW!! Dan quit last year and started again with some stress. When we are here lately we are smoking twice as much.... We're going to have to get s healthy so we don't die of lung cancer.

Another nice one and a thanks again, If I sounded defensive about my adoption, It's not the adoption, it's amazing the people who think I have to know who my birth parents are. Why? Because they're being good codependents! Don't answer that. If you need to know who my birth parents are, go find out. It's unimportant to me.

Here's something funny I've been reading on the boards (my perception, only). David wishes his wife were like AK. (She probably is). Steve thinks Dan is a lucky guy. I have to keep reminding Dan of this fact! :) Dan knows he's lucky. I think he is, too. Let's sort this out. We are all alike here or we wouldn't be here, right? If the truth be known, Steve and I would probably never quit yelling and Dan and AK would be bored with each other in 20 minutes. I think we all have the right mates. We just have to learn to live with our differences.

Why no fix 'em's Trubbles? I can't part with a baby kitten and Cats are worse than rabbits, at least in my history. I don't even let them engage. ^_^

Love to, Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

Nuestra Senora de Atocha Si?

From the Gypsy Witch Doc

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

Lynn - I think Dr. I meant that you are busy enough already trying to "fix" everyone. :) (but spaying or neutering cats is something you could do to make yourself feel good!) Hey, hold on a cotton-pickin' minute there! And I can relate to you, because I'd like to fix everybody too. But of course, we can only fix ourselves.

I still think the world needs people like you who care though - just don't forget *you* in the process.

:)

AK

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

Oh, Gee, Ak,

You're no fun. I like to hear what I wanna hear :) :)

I guess I'll have to concentrate on fixing our new bird, cuz all the other critters here already are.

Don't you wish we could simply get a BIG band aid and kiss all the boo-boo's away?

OK, Trubble, we got it! Get the big band aid and kiss our own boo-boo's and make them better.

Fixed, Lynn  Whewww... That was close.

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

Hi!

I can't believe what goes on while I'm gone! Cat Box 5?! Welcome back Becky! Three kitchen cabinets installed, today, and it took all day! In these old houses, where everything slopes (you can roll a ball downhill on the kitchen floor) getting things level is a real pain. We'll have to get a bunch of trim to hide the gaps at the top. I wish he'd asked his brother to help; it would have gone faster. When I suggested that, he got mad. I can only do so much; am not much good at lifting heavy bulky things.

I'll have to check Buddha (direct link to today's current yakking) out; haven't been there lately. It seems that cat box and the message boards are about all I can handle.

Who am I? I'm trying to come up with something that doesn't have to do with someone else, like I'm a mom, a daughter, or a teacher. How about I'm a lover of nature, music, and books. I'm a daydreamer, an intellectual pac-man who would eat knowledge if I could. I'm a writer who hasn't written a story in too many years. I'm trusting, (too trusting!) empathetic, easily moved, easily horrified. I'm on a mission, sifting through the years of my life for answers to that question: who am I? Put ye Self first and all else falls into place...

Well, it's been a long day! Dan, I will definitely not go to Ronald's house tomorrow! There's a nice place in town, (at least nice for THIS town) in a hotel. We'll probably go there. I guarantee it will cost me at least 50.00 for the four of us--nice enough? (Hey, that's big bucks for us)!

G'night, all. Sweet dreams!

becky

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2000

S1

Dear Becky,

That ought to keep you on board. Hey, you did good on the who am I. I only posted 2, but there are a couple more. And I don't think one can be toooooo trusting, with some limits of course, but if you (me) are trusting and get betrayed, whose loss is it?

Shame about the books. I love reading. I try and read a book a day. (OK at night, Trubble) but if I ever wrote one (OH, I started one once...this I'd better tell great lesson). Anyhow, it would have to be fact. I had all the data and everything sorted and ready once. See, one story leads to another thought. Anyhow, I had tons of stuff on the computer, loads of facts, and so to speak, I did my homework. I sent the idea to about 6 publishers and they rejected it. Called an agent and he figured maybe I'd sell about 5,000 copies and didn't think it would go. Not enough interest. This was in the early 80's. The topic. The Titanic. Great moral to this. I Knew this would sell!!! I was simply 15 years early. So if you do, publish it yourself if you have to. If you know it's good, it is. It's time will come. Regrets? No, I knew I was right!

I saw the Titanic exhibit recently. It made me strangely sad and melancholy. Might have been the commercialism.

Doesn't anyone like my word? The rest ignored me Becky, so I'll tell you. Feminism as opposed to mannerism. There, that's my last shot.

Dear Becky's H,

From an expert on old houses. Rule #1, throw out the level. If it's ALL crooked it looks visually better. Don't tell him I said so :) I had an old house and that is what the experts told us.... 

Have a great day and Happy October. I'm going to post a Lynn only one later, I'm trying to get my posts "more better" organized. Fat chance.

Sweet Dreams to you, too Love, Lynn  Night MommyDoc2

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

S1

Dear Cat Box,

Lynn here, trying to organize my posts. First I have a cryptic message. The Fishers. To you know who. I'm still on board, if you answer, I will know.

Dear AK,

How are you tonight? Dan and I had a cute thought re your post. We need fixed, see, it can work! I don't expect our vet to fix us, though. That's why I call me a bleeder. That's why I don't go surfing far. There are a few special to me's aboard this ship and I have to limit myself. I also had a great Anniversary Date for us. August 23 is when I first set sail on this exciting cruise, so.. Wherever we are next year on this date we will have to schedule an official Roll Call so we can exchange our success stories. Ok with you Trubble? Doc, too...

I think I am going to post this here because I've been hinting. I do have some Zyban, for quitting smoking. The last batch I smoked right through. Well I took 2 tonight and will TRY Friday. First day on trip of 2 weeks around non smokers. There! If I come back smoking, let me have it..... Go for it!

I'm with Becky, Just ME is tough. I've posted 2 who am I's. One snuck in over at G's site. I think I best do #3. I am steadfast in my friendships. If I heard from someone I knew 25 years ago, I could pick up the same feeling at once. I also don't have an overabundance of true friends. (Had an acquaintance who invited 75 close personal friends to a shower. I can't think of 75 people I'd want in the same room together). But the ones I have last forever. I think this goes for those of us here. That's why I would like to hear from all of you once in a while. I like tidy endings. I'd hate to get off the boards and never know........

Dear Steve,

If you are out there, Hello.

Dear David,

I posted you 3 times, come visit me and say hello.

Hi AngryGirl,

I'm still laughing at "Cheech and Chong" What a sense of humor.

Dear Dan,

I'm telling: Trubble, we had shrimp for dinner. Did he save any for you? Daddy sure did (burp).

Dear Dr. Irene,

My instincts. Dan is here, too. I don't want to rush this, but I thought of leaving our Harville Hendrix Book for Couples, Getting the Love You Want, for Dan to read while I'm gone. I've already read it. I already did what I could of the worksheets. What do you think? Dan's OK with it. So am I. Why not? Any way that helps Dan go inside and deal with the accumulated debris is fine.

Someday group, go to Lynn's Letter to the Doc. You don't have to read the whole thing. Just read the top of the page. I still feel that way. That you both feel that way is why you guys are doing so well... Each mindful of the self; nobody being all-right, all-purrrfect.

Say Goodnight Lynn

Goodight All with LLP&H,

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

S1

Well, I have to laugh at this stuff or I'll really come unglued. Giggle

My local counterpart of the Catbox is the Bitter and Cynical People's Club (pending a possible rename to the Bitter and Cynical Poetry Circle), which was the Bitter and Cynical Men's Club in its previous incarnation, but the current membership seems to be two women and one man. (All three of us went through bad breakups relatively recently, and are in "laugh or go crazy" mode right now.) So we sit in diners and chat and play video games and watch movies etc. Oddly enough, the three of us haven't managed to all get together at the same time.

So, I had another pseudo-non-date tonight with the current male member of the club (who is the guy who originally introduced me to my ex). I had a vested interest in avoiding my house due to the boxes everywhere from housemate moving out. I was working overtime morning and afternoon, came home and got online to check messages, and he was on AIM. I haven't been calling him because I knew he was working night shifts a lot this week and I didn't want to wake him up. (Switched around shifts BAD! I'm so glad I have a straight office job.) But if he was on AIM he was obviously awake. So we got together, got food, went to the game store and he continued my Starcraft "lessons" (apparently, back when they were still the Bitter and Cynical Men's Committee three years ago, the guys used to rotate leadership based on who won, so he's trying to teach me to play well enough to be a threat to him -- could take awhile). I still didn't want to go home, so we went to a movie, and we STILL didn't seem to want the night to be over, so we drove around the city for about an hour, and sat in the car in the park's parking lot and chatted for another hour, at which point he said he was practically falling asleep, so I took him home and came back here. Kitties are happy to see me. :) 

I think maybe we really were the right people at the wrong time back in college. Unfortunately, now's not quite the right time either -- both of us are dealing (at times, not very well) with past-relationship junk. I actually at some point last week ended up writing him a long rambling e-mail about how depressed I was and how tired I was of being a responsible adult. I'm also having major job stress (co-workers who have a bad habit of making various and sundry bigoted comments, which just makes me want to scream) and I think if I had the cash, I almost might have said "screw everything" and gone off somewhere in the middle of nowhere. But probably not. It made an amusing fantasy for a few days, though.

But how could I abandon my darling kitties? And they like it here. I think I was even saying in the e-mail that the cats were the main thing forcing me to act like some semblance of a reasonable adult. :) Yeah! We're worth it!

And thanks for agreeing with my misplaced Confessions post about the money thing, Lynn. That drove me nuts! I don't like feeling like I'm being mercenary, but SHEESH! Oh well. One really nice thing about this non-date stuff is that we both pay our own way and make sure we do stuff that both of us can afford. :)

-AngryGirl

Special message to Steve: Come out come out where ever you are... We miss ya. We're here for ya. We're rooting for ya. Love, Doc, Trubble and (we're sure) every other poster here.

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

S1

Angry, Lynn back, about the bigoted. We have a mix in our families. Gay, Indian, black, I don't know what all, but after doing genealogy, when people ask what nationality I am, I say, "North American." I have 5 black cats and Dan got a white one. He wouldn't name him "Honkey." I had to settle for LOCO. I don't mean to offend anyone here, I think it's neat on these boards. There is no race. Male and female is enough without getting ethnic. Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

S1

Dear Doc,

This time you were editing. I still say these take on a life of their own!

Thanks T,

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

S1

Dear AngryGirl,

I'm thinking you are going to have to change names here if you keep doing so well. You don't sound so angry.

I'd suggest that you give this old/new guy a chance and not rush it. I got involved with Dan way before I was ready. My late husband had only been dead 6 months when Dan and I started living togther. We both had our own homes, but he was either at mine or I was at his. I did know him (I mean I had been introduced to him:) Then later we fell in love.

The giving others cash thing. I was told once that if "I" didn't lend someone $500 she was going to have to give her baby up for adoption as she had spent ALL the budget money buying baby things and didn't pay the rent, power or phone. As Dr. Irene says, All things for a reason. I was adopted, so I told her that I thought the adoption sounded like a neat idea to me. She didn't sound responsible enough to have a baby. She took some of the stuff back and paid some bills and kept the baby. This person I would have given a kidney to. Not money.

Can't we get responsible for pets? We have to hire a baby sitter if we go anywhere together. Good though, what would we do without something to take care of?

I haven't read Confessions. I really should have just stayed here. Thoughts drift and we post hither and yon. Actually, I think the boards get some higher power and puts some of these where it will. Seems like the boards can take on a life of their own at times.

Keep laughing at all the fun things. Laughter seems to heal the innards.

Much Love and take care of those kitties, Trubble may be able to kittie sit if he needs a part time job. ^_^

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

S1

Yeah Steve,

It's not that I've run out of ploys. I'm running out of time. I'm going to have to withdraw or I'll be on my trip begging to borrow lap tops.

This will be a good chance for Dan to be Dan. I'd like to see you and David here, too. I don't want him totally under the girls influience. I be likely to become co co dependent. (Not a typo, Trubble).

So Steve, I've given you hints and clues and I know (undrlined) you are smart enough to have caught them. If there were more, I wasn't smart enough and I had to stay away from the poem you wrote. There was a lot there that almost named names. Including the "Raven."

Let's try again. Hi, Steve. Want a ginger-ale? My name is Lynn.

And the least you can do is tell me goodbye and to have nice trip!

(((HUGS)))

Lynn PS. Trubble, thanks for the zap!

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Steve,

Your wish was granted!

MommyDoc2

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Dear Doctor Irene,

Lynn here answering some of the blue pencils. I agree about treating couples, I felt we were ALL working on Dan's codependency.

Didn't beat him at pool. We were a team on that, too. Mixed Doubles. Puts a whole new meaning to the word, doesn't it?

Thanks bunches and pork roast for din din, Trubble coming?

Love, Lynn

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Hi all.

Steve is with his kids today so it would be hard for him to post. He may not be around until late tomorrow, because there's a work project that needs to get finished. I can't wait for him to get on the boards either! But he has to do it when it's right for him.

Lynn, you might have to rent a laptop! :)

"Who am I?"

My fake name is AK - I picked the "alias" Asha Kiora, because Asha means hope, and Kiora means love.

I'm someone who wants to make a difference in the world.

love to everybody

AK

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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By the way...

I had to give Steve an interpretation of what Trubble, Mommy, and Daddy meant. For anyone that joins us halfway through the posts, we must look like a group of lunatics! :)

AK

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Dear Dr Irene, Trubbles and the rest of the cat box family and anyone who's reading but doesn't want to be known,

I had to go over and fix the neighbor's pipes twice yesterday as the splice that I put in blew apart. I thought that I'd replumb but it's going to take maybe two full days and I didn't want to start yesterday afternoon.

Lynn said not to beat myself up about it, I didn't, instead I was cussing out the pipe manufacturers for producing inferior pipeing, especially since neither hardware store here carries what I need to do this job.

AngryGirl mentioned bigotry in her post, and I know that it is out there. I once applied for a job as a teacher with the Job Corps but was turned down, because I didn't have enough experince working with kids. Five years teaching, 3 or 4 years coaching baseball and softball, kids, womens and mens. Not enough experience? The person who got the job was a just graduated (biology degree) young lady of Hispanic descent. Boy was I questioning the selection process there, as well as myself and what I put or didn't put on the application form.

It was raining out and the temp dropped. I got to start a fire.

Seriously, I was thinking earlier about my fear of water. I can't swim, a rock can do the deadmans float better than I. This is because, according to my mother (her lips are moving) I almost drowned in a boating accident when I was way younger. Lynn has told me, that she told her, that when I was a toddler and cried in the tub, she would dunk me and hold me under for a minute or so. [ Lynn here, his mom and I were visiting and discussing child rearing. This was said as a matter of fact. If a child cries in the tub, hold their head under water until they quit crying. Pretty soon they learn not to.] I still have no recollection of this though, but I believe that she did just that. Now I wonder why I'm scared of drowning. In the 8th grade, the class (I went to a Catholic School) went on a swimming party at a swimming complex. My friends said that they would help me learn to swim, I was gung ho, and they took me to the deep end in a rubber innertube and punctured it. If the Lifeguard hadn't been on his toes, I wouldn't be posting here today. I don't blame them though, it was the old sink or swim theory. I sunk. And there was no maliciousness on their part, they apologized after, saying that they thought that I would swim. I even flunked swimming 3 years in a row in high school.

No one has posted anything relating to anything like this so why it popped up, I don't know.

Becky,

About your H not wanting any help, other than yours, I can understand that, as I was the same way. Fellings of maleness get into the way, I know that I can do it myself! There are times that I still try and do it myself, and other times, more and more lately, when I'll ask Lynn's help. She is quiet knowledgable about remodeling, I always want to put a level on it even when this makes it look sloping. I understand this though, I"m a perfectionist because when I was younger if I didn't do it right I had to do it over until I got it right. This came from an uncle, who wouldn't pay me until the job was done to his satisfaction. [Lynn here again, Dan used to do something, take it apart, do it again, etc. Now he does the best he can and if there is a boo-boo, we cover with trim or paint. :)] This isn't to excuse your H's actions, just perhaps a little insight about why he does the remodeling the way he does.

I also never called Lynn to let her know that I was going to be late, it took a few years for her to get me to understand that it was only proper because then she wouldn't think that I had been in an accident and nobody informed her. I now either call or have someone in the office call. I just never thought about calling, probably because Lynn is the first person who actually cared. I always took care of myself even when I was with my first wife. (This isn't coming out the way that I'm intending), my first wife did care but I still answered to myself. (Trubble, Lynn says she heard a different story. From me.) I don't remember telling her but I don't doubt because her memory is far better than mine. I say it's like a steel trap. She can remember a lot of her childhood and I don't remember much before the age of 9. Bits and pieces but as I have posted some memories are returning, I recall things and I'm remembering my dreams. I'm still sleeping like a normal person, I think.

Lynn has told me that I snore, and I used to say, "No I don't because I stayed awake last night and didn't snore once."

The restaurant sounds quiet nice and $50 for 4 people isn't that expensive. There is one here where, I hear, it costs that for one person. The owner, rumor has it, has spent over $1,000,000 to rebuild and remodel it. And in this town I believe it.

I'm kind of rambleing here, just putting stuff down as it enters my head.

Lynn is wrapping Christmas presents, but is popping in when she sees something that she would answer in a post.

I think that maybe I'll either post this or repost it, but here is a little tidbit about how I was treated when I came home from Nam. A group of us went to a bar in the SF airport, dressed in our dress greens, and being under age, I ordered a coke, (yes Lynn, a coke),and the bartender wanted to know if I thought that I was a war hero or what, coming into his bar being underage? Did I think that just because I was returning from Nam that I got special treatment? I was wearing the ribbons that represented the medals that I received over there, plus the division patch could only mean that I was over there. We, as a group, were speechless and we left. My feelings were that the guy was an a-----e. We only did what our country (President) wanted and expected. I even tried to join the VFW when I got back and was told at I couldn't because I hadn't served in a foreign war. "Viet Nam wasn't a war, it was a police action." Men died there and were just as dead as those who died in World War I and II. This has xhanged though, I now belong to the VFW.

For many years, including the time that I was over there, I blamed LBJ, for not giving us the support that we desperately needed. Last year, on the History Channel, they had a special on him and this time. He, like Lincoln, would go to the stratigic planning room and get the casualty list for that day (Nam is 22 hrs ahed of the US) and return to the oval office where if time allowed he wrote a personal letter to the families. I admire him for that and no longer blame him. What really gets me, is that they call it LBJ's folly when in actuality it was Ike who got us involved over there. But Ike was a war hero and a good old boy so don't put the blame on him and besmirch his terms of office. In the movie Platoon" the lead character is asked, (paraphrased) "What are you doing over here?, you're a white boy!" This was asked by some colored soldiers. This war was a rich man's war on the main part, the only upper class types who served were those who, like me, volunteered. Even today, for me, those words say it all. I do have to say though that I served with some pride and, perhaps with some misconstrued ideas on my part, that I was serving my country as a whole.

I do admit, though, that it took a lot of years on my part to admit that I had served over there.

Trubble, I still think that you would enjoy cutthroat trout, one would feed you all day. And I'm not pulling your tail. Catfish is out of the question though as our neighbor would probably beat you to it.

Well, enough of this novel, take care all, hugs and prayers.

Dan

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Dear AK,

You and I must have read the same name book. One of our cats if Paka Jina. It means "Black Cat"

What do you mean sound like a bunch of lunatics? :) We are! If not that, catatonic. I looked that up and it isn't. Is that the way if's spelled.

Rent a lap top? I just hope I'm pre-shrunk enough to survive without ya'all. I've got some serious touristing to do.

To the group. I thought to myself that AK with a long "A" sounded like ache. I'm happy to see it doesn't.

Steve, Glad to hear you are with us again, even if only in spirit. Hugs. Mommy, Daddy, Trubble and LOCO. I would have loved to add Honkey Cat. (Song by Elton John)

Dan, What do you mean you "got to light the stove"? Trubble, I apologize here. I'm not trying to take away your job. I had some great one word "blue pencils" for Dan's post and in some instances, I've heard both sides of the story. Memory like a steel trap, indeed!

Hi Becky, Hope the weekend is going well for you. We don't eat out a lot. We live in a tourist town and it's $5.50 for a hamburger! For that I want a tablecloth and a waiter who asks how I want it done!

Dr. Irene, I think I'm ready for the Old Cats Home. Dan got out my luggage. Brown cardboard boxes with duct tape. Matching luggage consists of two cardboard boxes from the same company. Nobody ever stole my suitcases! Take care and take extra care of Trubble while I'm gone.

Love to all of you lovely people. And after Thursday remember, I'm having a wonderful time and I wish you were here.

Lynn

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Dan,

I think every one who served in Viet Nam deserves a Purple Heart.

(V) <----- Suppose to be Dan's Purple Heart.

Love, Lynn

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Dear All,

Lynn asked me the other day "Who are You?"

I have thought about that, and I think one part of me is; A person who likes to help those who seriously need it. i.e. our senior citizen neighbors. And us! Another part is a friend who can be counted on. (This wasn't true for Lynn, but is now especially since this board and Dr Irene and Trubble.) My daddy! How are you doing with everything daddy?  BTW, any more fishies for me & LOCO? Uh, we meowed. Don't know how to tell you this daddy, but LOCO hates rice too...LOCO loves Trout & Salmon with catnip sauce...

Another part is someone who believes that there is a better way.

That's all for now.

Hugs

Dan

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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*sigh*

Well, THIS is bad. Just found out one of my/my ex's friends OD'd on speed and was in the hospital basically with a heart attack. This guy is 20 years old! :(

Oh, and my ex is single again. Apparently the new lady wanted something more serious than he was willing to give her at that point. I guess it's an improvement over wanting to get married one month in... but of course now he wants, not to get back together with me, but to spend more time together and to sleep with me. Um, no. NOT sleeping with him. NOT acceptable. No no no. I'm fairly annoyed that he even asked.

Blah. So that's my Sunday. I have to go give someone a ride to his girlfriend's house; back online later.

Hmm. Regarding that name issue, I wouldn't use my real name here on catbox because it's very similar to someone else's. But I respond to my SCA persona name almost as readily, and it's one I chose and love. The meanings depending on translation are "star", "divine strength" or "beloved of the gods". :)

-Astrid (poster formerly known as AngryGirl)  Ohhhh, we likes Astrid! Does Astrid have fishies for us too?

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Dan

My heart goes to you after reading the post about your mother dunking you to get you to stop crying in the bathtub.

This is why I'm so glad that you've recognized your own "mis-behaviors", and can begin to stop a cycle of abuse.

It's just so sad when the child becomes an adult and repeats the behavior because they know it to be "normal". That's why I think spreading the word about the effects of abuse is so important. You bet!

The not calling when you are late - I went through this with Steve. He didn't understand at first either. He does now, but I felt I had to "teach" him. Why do some people know this while others don't? Obviously, my parents taught me something about it. Exactly. But I don't really remember how. By being who they were. I think I just knew inside that they would be concerned if they didn't know where I was. I do remember one incident when I went to the double feature at the drive-in and I guess I had told them I was going to the movies (which they thought would have been a single feature). When the double feature was over and I came home my parents were in a state of panic. I learned that they were concerned, but my dad was extremely angry with me, which I don't think he needed to be. I just didn't realize what I had done. I said I was sorry, and he said sorry wasn't good enough. (This was around the time of his heart attack - he had lots of pent up stuff and nowhere to put it) Thankfully my dad is much more calm in his older age - he has learned, and is still learning.

I remember acting the same way my dad did, towards Steve one night. I had gone out of town, but before I had left we had been fighting. When I got back he wasn't there. By about 1 a.m. I was worried sick. He had forgotten to leave me a note to say that he too was going out of town to see some friends. My ex-boyfriend (pre-Steve) used to walk out to punish me and that's what I assumed Steve was doing. When he got home, I flipped on him. I later realized that he wasn't "punishing" me, but that writing a note had not occurred to him, or phoning to say he would be late. Still, it hadn't even entered his mind to let me know he had gone, which baffled me.

Maybe it was comparable to me not thinking about the fact that the double feature I was going to would end quite late, and that my parents wouldn't know that without my telling them. And funny that my reaction to Steve (which was pre-programmed to expect him to be acting like my previous boyfriend) was so much like my dad's. Giggle!

I love your "Christmas in October" - this is the kind of traditional, non-traditional stuff that warms my heart. (hint hint Steve)

hugs

AK

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Why can't we all just make up our own names anyway? Like the natives - you know names that translate into things like "laughs-a-lot" etc.

I have another one.

What do you want inscribed on your gravestone?

AK

p.s. Astrid, very sorry to hear about your ex's friend.

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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p.s.

The gravestone is figuratively speaking. Personally, I'd rather be cremated and cast out to sea.

AK

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Astrid Dear,

I am so sorry about that young man. I hate to hear things like that. I'll say a prayer.

Dear AK, Astrid, Becky, Steve, Dan, H, Dr. Irene and Trubble, and David if you are returning the visit.

Merry Christmas soon to be. This is how we have to do it to get it together. Great Fun. It's too bad that Dan can't join us this year.

Love the tombstone. I have one. My dad didn't want my mother buried alone and wanted me to send for my late husbands ashes. He was cremated and scattered in the Pacific ocean. Well part of him. There are a lot of ashes and only part fit in the humidor (that's right). The rest was scattered in my oldest stepsons (He died of AIDS) garden in CA, but he only told me. When I went to get my moms ashes they put her in two jars for me so my dad had 2 bottles of ashes to bury. My moms dog died the day my late H did and she wanted her (the dog) scattered with her. The Catholic priest was great here. My dad decided not to get mom cremated so he had a place to mourn. The priest suggested the tombstone for dad but suggested he respect my mom's wishes. Nice. Well, my mom died in DEC so out here you just don't dig a hole with a 6 foot frost level. My sister put the "2" urns and mom's dogs' ashes in her coat closet.

Meanwhile I met Dan, so Dan and my dad went out to pick up the stones took them out to my sisters ranch and put them in place where he wanted mom and H and dog. It didn't connect that no one was interred yet. Well, we didn't know what to do or how to tell him so we didn't for years. My brother-in-law used to come into the house and hang up his coat and tell them hello. He and Dan can get crazy on the "best mother in law" stories.

Anyhow, We fessed up and mom got her true wish anyway as she wanted to be scattered with her dog from the top of the mountain. They were, but my dad still has his tombstone as a memorial. Mine and late H's is right next door. (Another mixed double). Just has my name and birth date. I probably won't be put there anyhow. I donated my body to a medical college and if they take me Dan can get the remains back after 2 to 5 years. I'm hedging my bets here, though. I'm also an organ donor and have it in my will that if my body isn't accepted by the college that Dan and the kids get together and make everyone happy. Doesn't matter to me. Big request though. I want my grandson to sing "Memories" from the play Cats at my service. If all else fails I'd like to be cremated and have my ashes put in little boxes (like little match boxes) and have all the guests at my going away party take one and scatter me all over the world. I plan to make it past 90 anyhow.

I have a big issue with Dan about this, but I gave it up years ago. This is his story if he cares to tell it. Then I can tell mine.

I sure went far afield of your question, didn't I. How about "I'd rather be in the Cat Box." (borrowed from W.C. Fields, kinda)

So, with that lengthy answer I'm going to go dish up dinner.

I'd have to stick with this name. I'm over 50 and I'd forget more than one.

We just watched Moonstruck again, my best fix it film, so with that I'm gone for the night. Prayers for your friend.... Love, Lynn

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Hi everyone! :)

Trubble, I've got lutefisk if you'd like to give that a try (an appropriately Viking-ish thing to have *grin*)... luteFISH? Sounds reasonable...

What I'd want as a memorial: Well, given that I don't plan on dying any time soon, and I tend to end up going in directions I hadn't planned, I don't know what I'll actually want, and people tend to be remembered in unexpected ways -- look at Emily Dickinson. But I really like the custom for funerals in the Darkover series ... everyone stands around the coffin and shares their favorite memory of the person, then ends with the phrase "let that memory lighten grief." That's what I'd want for a funeral.

But enough of that. Something I thought of that I wanted to share with Lynn and Dan (and AK and Steve): find yourselves a copy of the album Lifelines by Peter, Paul and Mary. The song "24 Green Street" reminds me of Lynn and Dan -- it starts off by talking about things that are wrong with a house, then similar things that are wrong in a marriage. The chorus ends with "There's nothing here that a little work and time can't heal, 'cause everything underneath is real." It sort of popped into my head while I was driving earlier.

In fact, if you're interested in the lyrics, you can read them at http://www.peterpaulandmary.com/music/f-18-10.htm

More later, perhaps. I need to make some phone calls. :)

Hugs all around, Astrid

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Dear Astrid,

Now you are singing our tune. We remember Peter, Paul and Mary.

Thank You :)

Lynn

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Giggle Astrid,

We probably still have that on an old 33 1/3 LP. Don't think we have any 78's left :)

Lynn and Dan

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Thanks Astrid for the touching lyrics.

What I really meant in my original question was what do you want your life to have accomplished, in one line or less. What is your purpose here on earth and how would it be summed up at the end of your life?

Totally straying from that topic, my dad thinks that coffins are extremely impractical. He thinks that it would be more efficient to use the pole diggers that are used for setting up hydro poles and put the bodies in upright. We even brainstormed that if we could plasticize the bodies with a clear coating, we could get the heads to stick out, and we wouldn't even need tombstones! :) Yes, I know, my family has a sick sense of humor. Trubble - don't tell the doctor. Once you get my family going on the death humor it just doesn't stop. For example, my mom always says that her biggest fear is that when my dad dies she won't know how to price his tools. So we came up with the idea that when he's on his death bed in the hospital, we'd bring them in. We joke that if she starts asking him to "price his tools" he'll know something's up. Just a little sick humor... sorry, I couldn't resist.

AK

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Dear Dr Irne, Trubble and the rest of our little family here and those who we would like to be.

I'll start off with the tombstone idea of AK's.

I never thought of a tombstone as I have wanted to be cremated for at least 30 years. When I was working on my Masters, we had to write our own obit. A few years later I thought of one which is short and to the point. He was born, lived and died. Of course when I was a teenager, I didn't think that I was going to live past 21. Even when I was shipping out to Nam, I knew that I would come home, because I wasn't 19 yet and I was going to die behind the steering wheel.

I have to admit that I don't know of the series that Astrid posted about, but the memorial sounds amazingly like what I have heard and read about for Irish funerals. Only as you toasted, you broke your glass and wished the departed long and happy journey, until we meet again in the tavern on the green.

The issue which Lynn alluded to in one of her posts is that I don't have a will. I've told her and my brothers what I would like, but haven't put it into writing and she has told me that she is not going to fight over my dead bones. Before I met Lynn, I had never even thought of a will because I thought that my daughter would get it all automatically. Not by our state law, by dying intestate, the state gets theirs and then my family. Of course if I die before my mother, she will probably claim that Lynn and I weren't together for how ever many years and I have no daughter. I have given a will a lot of thought and actually written one, but its' like my tools, its where I used it last, and I don't know where that is.

This is funny in it's own way, because I have been written out and put back into my mothers will, heaven only knows how many times. The funny thing is that she doesn't have anything that I want. Materialistically. I may still want some recognition from her (which I know that I won't get) but nothing otherwise. The sorry thing about this is, she thinks because she is that way, everybody owes her, all of us kids are too.

Dear AK,

Your story about the double feature, reminds me that both my dad and mother used to tell me the very same thing, that is Sorry doesn't get it, buster. Every once in awhile, Lynn calls me buster, she didn't know that my parents called me that also.

After I bought my car, which I posted about earlier, my mother decided that I had misbehaved, I don't remember if I did or not, but she told me to give her my car keys that wasn't going to take it out that night. I did, and then I went out and hotwired it and drove it anyway. No excuse, it was MY car and there wasn't anyway that she was going to stop me from driving it. How selfrighteous I was at that age. Another lesson that I learned well. She told my dad when he came home for the weekend and he pulled the coil off of the car, I could have gotten another and put it on, but I figured that I had better watch my Ps and Qs. Sort of once burned, twice smart.

Lynn just showed me a sentence that I had included on the two posts that went to the cyber space gods. I enlisted and volunteered to go to Nam, I had always wanted to be a professional soldier, and by enlisting [I felt that it was the only way that I could get away from my family (mom and dad) with their blessings.] (the important sentence.)

I think that I will sign off for now

Trubble, LOCO said that he would wait for me to catch a Dolly Varden.   As LOCO's older brother, let it be known: Neither of us will ever be self ritchus like silly humans. Cats are made of better fur... But we still love you our imperfect lowly human Daddy.

Dan

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

S1

Dear AK,

I'm way ahead of you. About 700 posts back I said I wanted my obit to have my name and say that I "Finally went to the big cat house in the sky." I'm glad you do this, too. Dan think I'm the only person who can go to a funeral and find something to laugh about. Don't get me going on this.....Trubble, PAW TIME. By the way, what kind of tools?

Okay, Sing Goodnight Irene Lynn, Much love and lots of laughter, Lynn Hey, MommyDoc2, what do ya mean you're going away Thursday? What about *Me*ow?

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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OK Doc, uncle....

What or who is ByTheWay? We've been burning up brain cells ALL afternoon.

Lynn

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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Dr Irene? haha Dan - was the word urn on your mind? Those Freudians are popping up everywhere! Not in my office! I'm allergic to them!

hehe

And just so you don't have to burn too many extra brain cells before the doc gets here - BTW is "by the way"

AK (hopelove)

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

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What kind of tools Lynn?

Just the regular shop tools, and carpentry stuff. I couldn't begin to name them. I don't know what half of them are. That's why we'd need him to price them.

AK

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Date: Sunday, October 01, 2000

S1

This is my last post tonight, honest. Lynn again with another of the who am I's.

I love to stir the pot. This gets called other things, but that's my term. I also have to be in a pretty stable state of mind or I can't do this:

My favorite. I cannot believe the people who still care how Kennedy was killed. I found a way to keep them from inflicting their conspiracy theories on me. I look them in the eye and tell them that "I know how Kennedy was Killed." Then it's fun to engage them. I say, "Oswald was a lousy shot, right?" Yes "Oswald threatened Connolly, right?" Yes. I then inform them that must agree with me. Oswald was aiming at Connolly and WAS a lousy shot! That's the last I hear of it.

My second one, I don't know why people think they had to know how much I made at work. I had a 40 hour job and tended bar down the street 1 day a week. When asked what I made I'd ether reply $100 bucks a shift (this was pre 1980) or else that I didn't get paid. I did it for a hobby. Some people made it their life goal to find out which was true. Giggle!

My third, I don't tell anyone how I vote. Not even Dan. (childhood lesson). One election day a customer asked who I voted for, for president. I said Jesse Jackson. The fight was on with some giving me the right to vote for whomever I wanted, some agreeing with me, some saying I was crazy. This one lasted weeks as all those engaged came back day after day to keep this one going. I never engaged one word after his name.

This isn't always a good quality, yet it is definitely a part of who I am.

Can't life be fun? Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Hopelove,

I'm in tears. Love it, love it, love it. He caught one that I would have let go. He was going "to sin off now."

Maybe we should hold garage sales instead of funerals? BTW

Love ya lots and thanks for the laughter,

Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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BTW Trubble,

Is silly one of the stages of recovery. Gee... She must have forgotten to add it to the list! Oh well, what do ya expect from a dumb human...

^_^ I haven't had Finnan Haddie in years. Love, Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

S1

Dear Hopelove, Hi the rest...

I'm still laughing. Have a couple of brief Q's because I HAD to go back and read.

Buster with Dan. Invisible buttons? His will. He's been telling me for years what he'd like me to do when he's dead. I kept telling him to get a will. Totally disengaged finally. I will not stand in a funeral home and fight over his bones. He told his mother once that he wanted to be cremated and she said, "Over my dead body!" Betcha you know my answer to that one. I only told Dan, not her.

I love the female members of his family. Nobody ever died. I don't think I ever heard them use the word. My favorite euphemism (sp?) So and so isn't with us any more.

Astrid,

Sooo speaking of euphemism's, Did you really mean "SLEEP"? ;)

Goodnight and Adios,

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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No, I did not mean sleep, as you can see I'm still awake. Not for much longer though. *giggle*

I had a very important long-distance call to make to one of my chosen brothers. (This is something that readily identifies me: I love the concept of chosen family. Even as a child, I cheerfully told people that I had six mommies and four daddies. Mommy #2 was my usual baby-sitter and I was so much part of her family that my picture was in the frame along with everyone else's, and I had part-time siblings despite being biologically an only child.)

This particular "family member" was placed next door to me my first year at "real" college (the state school, not the private women's college with the high school bridge program). We still toast our college's Res Life department for everything that THAT sent into motion. We've stuck together through his time in a mental hospital (he has bipolar disorder, and his meds needed a *major* re-adjust), a mutual ex-girlfriend (who is now chosen-sister to both of us and is about to move cross-country, which was part of what the call was about), me coming out of the closet (related to the mutual ex; he had expressed interest in her and asked if she was dating anyone -- I said "Yes, me actually!" much to his surprise *giggle*), our respective problems with blood family, our respective stints of "Bad Car-ma", and lots of other little stuff. And he's coming to visit for my birthday again! Yay!

One-liner (this might end up on an SCA award scroll at some point rather than a tombstone, but it's something I find myself saying a lot and it's starting to stick with people): "It needed to be done." A frequent response of mine to "thanks for taking care of that"-type stuff. I am a firm believer in random acts of kindness. I'm also one of those people who can walk into a crisis situation and be calm while it's happening. (I'm NOT a medical professional because I know I deal very poorly with death, even though people say I'd make a good one. But at SCA and some other gatherings, I'm one of the volunteer first-aiders on call.)

Lynn, I love the conspiracy theory stuff you posted. I, too, get really impatient with that sort of thing. There's enough REAL stuff going on that I don't want to waste my time on Who Killed JFK. You want conspiracy, try the whole mass-media-merger thing. I don't think anyone's trying to control the news as such; I just think that the swallowing up of local papers by Gannett is a bad thing. Writing quality took a serious turn for the worse, at least with our local paper.

OK, this time around I am going to sleep. Sweet dreams all. Mrrrrowwww....

Astrid

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Oh my gosh.

I had a scary dream. I'm still shaken by it.

I was in a fearful persons mind and body. Everything that was going on around me was terrifying; everything people were saying was threatening. I was running, but everywhere I ran there were more fearful things. I feared for my life.

At one point I was eating, then felt danger was closing in on me. I had to flee and hid my plate in some bushes where I hoped I could eventually find it again. I hoped no-one would find it and steal it.

At another point I had a conversation with someone who I knew had hidden ulterior motives to hurt me in some way. Again I ran from this person. (can't remember this part too clearly)

At the end I went to kind of a hotel. On my way I could hear hotel staff on the phone warning a customer in one of the rooms about something (an appliance maybe) that did not sound safe and whoever was being spoken to was being told to not do anything with it until someone came to see.

I then went to sleep in a large bed, but soon after a couple came in and the woman told me how rude I was to take the bed and not sleep on the floor when I knew they were coming. I got very angry with her and told them that I *would* sleep on the floor. I felt angry at her indignation and embarrassed for not having known what was appropriate.

then I woke up.

I have prayed several times that I could be inside Steve's mind just for awhile to understand what was going on. I think I was just there. Perhaps the "great spirit" answered me.  Yes. I was there. I like your name. What's it stand for? All Kat?

AK 

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Hopelove,

(((Hugs)))

AK, a bit of advice from Dr. Irene to Dan. Face your fears and they will go away.

Love, Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Hi All,

I don't know if this is an appropriate place to post, but well, risks are part of life so here goes:

We attract abusers YES!!! because of our underlying issues Correct?? Yep. And you welcome them too.

My question:

I feel very unsure how to behave in public. In company, friends, any get togethers. All my life I've had people telling me not to act this way, or that way. I even tried to be like them to attract them YUK, YES I KNOW!!!!

Now though I feel so uncomfortable and unsure how to join in and not feel so self conscious. My partner was always critical of me when we were out. (Dr Irene you may remember :) ) he'd tell me not to knock my glass on the table, not to knock the persons chair behind me because his pain in the butt sister kept getting up and I had to keep moving. So you see I am so unsure now how to just act as me.

Any ideas???

How do I find out how I as a person would act if I had not been subjected to all this stuff??? 

Thanks, a million, one day you may answer one of my e-mails LOL Yeah their a tat disorganized aren't they LOL.

Theressa

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Theressa - I'm no expert, but it would occur to me by your post that you are seeking a set of rules on how to act. Maybe instead you need to tap into your own feelings more, instead of worrying about what everyone else wants you to do - what feels natural to you? What I've done for myself personally is decide what kind of person *I* want to be, by thinking about people I know or know of that I admire and realizing what it is that I like about them. Because I know what qualities/traits to strive for, I make it my life goal to do that. Also, when I didn't have the confidence to act like a confident person would, I would just "pretend" I was a confident, unafraid person and soon the pretending wasn't pretending anymore. And I don't worry much about what people think of me in public anymore. Everyone messes up sometimes. hope that helps a little.

Lynn - if you don't like the name AK - why not call me Asha? I like that name. Also, though I think I have been facing my fears, the dream was more of a post-traumatic kind of thing. I finally am feeling the impact of what *I* was subjected to, now that I'm taking care of me. (no blame here whatsoever, just self care)

take care

Asha (AK) Hey? What happened to All Kat?

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Good Morning Kittens,

Lynn here, First I sent a hug to Hopelove (((Hugs))) in case it didn't post. I think after hearing your dream that you and Steve are more like Dan and I than I thought.

Do you guys ever reread your old posts? Just (underlined) your own and the Doc's Blue pencil? Mine are very revealing.

Steve, I've given you hints about an alias. Come up with your own. I still hear ya!

Becky, doo, doo, doo, doo, again. Last night David was posting about the term sleeping with. And I have wanted to ask since the first. Is the lower case b in Becky when you are down? Kind of a clue because those I write to say I tend to use upper case on words I like. Since this was brought to my attention, I ignore it! Will have to go back and check some of my posts tho....

Here's my big one for the Day, Doc. Headache, loggy, shakey and generally out of sorts. I do this every time I'm going to travel. I'm fine when I get going, but... the couple of Days before a trip, there isn't enough Gin or Valium to calm me down, so I don't even try.

I had a brief stomach lurch with Dan yesterday. I let it go and it worked out. He was packing the gifts and kept saying he'd have to use 2 boxes. I kept saying I was allowed 2 pieces of luggage. He insisted he knew that, that's why he was going to pack 2 boxes. I finally asked if I got to bring any clothes. Giggle... I keep a packed suitcase in case we have to get somewhere quick. (Does this mean something, like my bags are packed???) Anyhow I left it alone and we finally got on the same wave length. I'm going to two different places and would rather leave the bunch for the return trip and not have to haul it cross country. We finally got it together. One suitcase for the long trip with those presents enclosed and one box with the other presents and clean clothes for my return. Close one, for Trubble!!!!

Dear Astrid, I love the name, I think it suits you. I'm giving you guys "I can't change my name." Ha, I already did. Just the last name. Honorary, too. I bestow it on my chosen sisters-in-law.

Don't get me going on the media. This is another who I am. When I see someone wrapped up in someone else's life it totally amazes me. What I hate most is a news report and then somebody gets on the air and tells me what I just heard. Like, duh! We haven't had TV since July. Decided to get rid of cable and haven't put an antenna up yet. I may be hooked on the cat box and Dr. Irene, but at least it's MY LIFE I'm hooked on! Nuf said!

We have two bi polar people in our life. I had to have my son in law look it up for me, as I had never heard the term.

I wasn't going to get into the chosen family, but Astrid, you rang the bell. My kid dad got remarried and had a daughter. She divorced him and she and new H had a daughter. She and he are wonderful step parents and she always was, to my kids. A few years ago the kids asked carefully if we (Dan and I) would mind if they came for our between Christmas and Thanksgiving Holiday, too. Heck no. Well the 2nd little girl broke the ice. My kids introduced me as their Gypsy om and the little girls eyes got as wide as they could and turned to her mom and said, "See! I knew I had a Gypsy mom!" She always said she had a Gypsy mother who gave her up for adoption. She was glad to finally meet me. The fun part of this story is both girls call us granny and grandpa. (My X has nothing to do with any of us)..... When my son got married he and his wife had the family photo taken. Step dad, mom, them, step mom and step dad. We don't bother explaining this. We all know who we are.

Well Trubble, no more napping, take care of my sisters in law here while I'm gone. BTW, check on LOCO, too. He takes over the house when I leave. And is editing our work another sign of recovery? MommyDoc2 won't be logging on at all???

Dear David, If you lurk here, I quit reading all the books so I could understand Dan. 5 years and it didn't help. I still don't understand him. Now I'm focusing on understanding me and I'm not even doing that technically. The Doc has the degree so I'm letting her do her stuff. I don't even need to know the words. It really simplified my life. By the way, I enjoyed reading your BIO. Thanks. It makes you a bit clearer as a person.

Love to you all ad I'm not even going to edit. Let the Freudian chips fall,

Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear AK,

I just checked to see if I posted and your sentence JUMPED out.

I love your name, it is you. I was just reading my own interpretation into the pronunciation. It sounded like Ache. What would you prefer to be called? I'm sorry and I love YOU by whatever name I call you. A Kat by any name is still a Kat.

Love, Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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It also occurred to me that if I'm suffering any "post-traumatic" stress after 4 years as an adult in an abusive situation, imagine how an infant would feel if this was his/her first 4 years of life. Makes a lot of sense that the abuse cycle perpetuates itself. Yep.

Asha (AK)

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Lynn - You can call me Asha. (but AK's fine too)

Asha (AK) Hey: How about aKasha?

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Theressa,

Hello again. This is Lynn. I'm the opposite of you, but maybe that will help because my mom used to say to me that I can carry this to extremes and I "would cut off my nose to spite my face."

If jeans are in and I want to wear a skirt, I do. If everybody is casual I might go casualer. My daughter was my severest critic. Mother, how can you wear that? Simple, I liked it and felt comfortable in it. As for boo boo's in public. Trust me on this. I used to be a bartender (is this who I am Doc?). I've seen the mayor, the chief of police and the department heads of just about everywhere "screw" up in public. We all do! I'd bet even Dr. Irene has. (Trubble, never! Never. Especially *Me* I Never screw up.) When I am out in public I don't care who likes me and who doesn't. I learned long ago that I can't please everyone so I might as well please myself. Once I'm wearing something that truly pleases me, I feel fine.

Keep in touch here. We'll listen. And I've got to go now. Take care and (((HUGS))),

Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Theressa,

Can you tell us a little about yourself?

OK, Asha, gotcha! ^_^ Maybe the PTSS is what I'm hearing from Dan's dreams??? Oh! Strange thought, I remember him telling me of a dream he had as a child......

In my family one has to know who one is as far as names are concerned. My dad has never hit ones own name the first time yet. This goes for everybody.

Prayers and Hugs, Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Ah, shoot, Asha,

I have work to do today. You said in one of your posts KAY? for OK, right? We do this around here. Shirley is another one. From the movies Airplane or Airport?? My name's not Shirley. I woke Dan up from a nap one day and he answered the phone. Whomever asked him what he was doing and he sad, "_____ (his X) just woke me up." Not an I'm sorry or anything. His magical thinking that if he doesn't mention it it will go away, Later when dinner was done I said, "_______ (an X boyfriend of mine), dinner's ready." He apologized! Then I did, too.

Now we go with the Kay and Shirley (Surely), "You can call me KAY and you can call me Shirley, just don't call me ______ (his X or mine)"

Lynn who is going to turn this durn thing off!

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Doctor Irene,

Lynn here. About the quitting smoking cheer, "Go For It!", was THAT you? I don't know why we need to know this stuff. Yep. I guess I made another of my mistakes...

Love, Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Astrid,

Re: Random acts of kindness. I was helped one day when Dan's truck quit on me. I said I don't know how to thank you and he replied, "Pass it on." I've been using his words ever since.

Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Asha,

That almost was a typo. Dear Asta. I'm glad I went back and looked it up.

Speaking of Mommy, Daddy and Trubble, how about you and Astrid? This will look like a new group of people.

Becky, I just thought of this... Have you read B's story, Working the Marriage? I haven't been there for a while, but she was working on herself and H was changing. Just a thought. I pretty much have to stick here. Tooooo connfusing.

Dear Dr.Irene,

I can't find my Harville Hendrix book. I hid it from Dan and it is missing still. This is unusual for me because I an almost obsessive compulsive about putting things back where they belong. I even slept on the thought of finding it last night (this works for me usually). Nada. If this is a sign maybe Trubble will zap it up for Dan when he's ready to read it.

Comfort food tonight Trubble. Hot pork Trout soup. Just like mama used to make.

PS Doc, thank you for the "Purple" Heart and have a good rest of the day All,

Lovems' and Huggums',

Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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There is another name I answer to.

Granny, Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Hi, all!

I had an absolutely brilliant post ready to send last night, and wouldn't you know it--gremlins struck! First, I got disconnected, which our server does quite a bit. But when I tried reconnecting, it said "No way!" Kept telling me the password wasn't right. Well, I knew that it was, but what to do? So I called this morning, and the guy at the help desk got me back in business. I'll try to remember what I had to say. First, we had a nice brunch yesterday; we all ate tons of food (at least it felt like tons)! It was great to see my older boy. He lives with his dad about 40 miles away, and because of his work schedule, can't get over here much. For the last few years he's been in college even further away. He's graduated now, and trying to find a job remotely related to his major. He has a Psych. degree and would like to get into human resources. He's even playing with the idea of law school.

Dan--I'd like to comment on your mother dunking your head in the water to get you to stop crying, but I'm afraid I'll lose my reputation for being tactful! I never understood why some people seem to believe that they can bully the fears out of their children. I had fears too, as a kid: I was afraid of fire, and of the flashbulb in the camera (this was in the days of those big old bulbs that screwed into a relector). So--guess who had to burn the trash, and guess who's crying in a lot of the pictures? I don't remember anyone being kind and gentle to me, just angry. I never felt that I was "okay." My feelings and fears were, for the most part, treated with impatience.

My dad could be pretty harsh. if we didn't eat our spinach (or whatever) by the time the alarm went off, we got it shoved into our mouths. This was followed by the belt. I don't understand the logic of punishing a kid for not eating something you know she loathes! I mean if I couldn't choke it down to avoid punishment, I must have really hated it! Why didn't that matter?

I was really angry with my dad for years, and mom, too, for not stepping in very much. But I worked through that, and while I can't give him mushy cards for his birthday and father's day, I can sign them "love," which I was unable to do for years.

Lynn, about the lower case b. I think it's just a matter of not pressing the shift key down hard enough, but I have associated it with feeling low, in the past. I went through a time when I signed my name that way to personal things. I wasn't consious of feeling small, but maybe I was. I know that sometime back, in my journal, I wrote my husband's name in the form of a monster, and mine very small under it. That was definately a statement of how I was feeling!

AK, I share your macabre humor! Shortly after my husband's mom died, we went to the cemetary to plant some bulbs. As we were digging, I remarked that passersby might wonder what we're up to. That started us saying things like "I told you to get the ring off her finger first!," and "She WOULD want to buried with all her money!" I like the posthole digger idea! My husband has often told me to just put him on a park bench somewhere. One of the family's favorite movies is Weekend At Bernie's. I thought I'd have a heart attack the first time I saw it, I was laughing so hard. When my maternal grandpa died, my mom and her sisters took money from his estate and took all their husbands, kids, kids' spouses, and grandkids out to dinner, to the tune of about $300.00. This was significant because grandpa could be kinda cheap. My cousin's wife remarked that "Grandpa is probably spinning on his gurney!" (He wasn't "arranged for" yet.) We really got the giggles over that! After the funeral, we went to the house, and they lit a fire in the fireplace, something he'd never allowed. What fun! I guess it's comforting to know that controllers can't control from the grave--at least where lighting fires is concerned.

Back to Lynn. I did read B's story awhile back. I agree-change yourself. Hopefully the other will respond in a positive way. It's interesting how my focus has shifted from getting him to change, to changing what's wrong with me. Of course I hope he'll make changes too, but I'm not going to stop working on me because he won't work on himself. I know that I want to be more confident and emotionally stronger, and it really doesn't have anything to do with him. I want it for me! Also--I love Moonstruck! Love that Nicholas Cage! Have you seen City of Angels? He's awesome in that one, too.

While I'm on the subject of movie stars, I adore Tom Hanks and Meryl Streep. And I think that Jack Nicholson and Tommy Lee Jones are beyond cool! Okay, I'll settle down! Can't stand too many hot flashes!

I think I'm talked out for now. I'll have to think about what I'd like on my gravestone.

Time to do some laundry!

Becky (Capital B!)

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Hi Becky, Great post. The crazy thing about Dan's mom's story about dunking him is that it was told to us (2 other sisters in law and me), like we were sharing good parenting tips and and she was surprized Dr. Spock hadn't figured it out yet. She is already trying the control from the grave. Dan's DD brother. She will leave her house to another brother if he takes DD brother. Like he's one of her possessions. We got this nipped in the bud, fortunately, but I'll bet there's something in her will. I'd love to let her know that she has NO control after she's dead. She had no control on this one livng.

Your eat your food story. Me, too, but not with force. I had to take a bite of everything and then if I didn't like it I didn't have to eat it. Well, I ended up hating vegetables. I aso almost turned my house into a short order restaurant Turned out good though. My kids think vegi's are gourmet food.

Speaking of kids. My oldest used to look like a cross between Tom Hanks and JFK, jr. He's gained some weight lately so the similarity isn't as strong. My other son resembles Mr. T. My daughter looks like a younger version of me. Neither boy looks alike, but in a photo with my daughter or I between them the resemblance it there. My daughter is also an exact clone of their yougner half sister.

Sleepless in Seattle, too. I haven't seen the others.

Dan and I buried his pet bird at the cemetary. We were redoing some graves and worked like dogs for weeks. His bird died and he was going to throw her in the garbage! I put my foot down. The next day when we went out, I just dug a little hole and interred her. R.I.P.

Dan just came in and he wanted to post so I'll catch you later.

Hi Theressa, Asha, Astrid, Steve, Trubble and Doc. Hope I didn't miss any.

Love and tuna to all,

Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Dr Irene, Trubble and the rest of the cat box family.

I just typed a typo but caught it, I almost typed in cat house. What ever was I thinking. Actually I was just trying to speed type, which I can't do anymore.

I worked in a different department today and will be there for a while and the head of the department gave me a compliment I think, he told me that I was the crew boss. Its nice that he has that much confidence in me, the only drawback is that Lynn is leaving Thursday and he has a big meeting he has to attend so I'm not going to be able to see her off.

I talked with my employee today, from my old department, he got transferred with me, and he seems to think that our bird is a warbler.(sp?)

I love the changing of names of course I don't know if I'll get them all straight. Our one neighbor calls me Ben, she has sinc we moved in even though I have repeatedly told her my name. She's comfortable with Ben so what the hey.

To Asha (AK),

Scary dreams are really hard to understand or read. I really can't begin to interpert yours. The only thing perhaps is that you have been in the abusive relationship so long and are trying to change yourself and this is manifesting itself this way to draw you back into being your old self. Stay on the course that you have set and eventually the mental devils will run away. I think.

I hope that Steve joins us soon, like I said earlier, I would really appreciate his input. I don't know if he will see me as interfering or as someone who really wants help and to help beat this. I know that I feel that I am changing, Lynn is a better quaified person to answer that, but I DO Feel that way.

To Becky,

I'm glad that your brunch went well, and that your son was able to join you. I wish him luck with his job search.

Thanks for the encouraging words about the dunking, like you I had to eat everything on the plate, and like Lynn, I don't care for all veggies. Carrots, potatoes,green beans and corn, that's the extent.

To Astrid (AngryGirl),

I have to apologize, I forgot what you posted so will re read and post to you later.

To Theressa,

Please don't let feelings of being uncomfortable in crowd situations become overpressing. There are situations when I am also uncomfortable, even with people that I know, and I've been told that I'm a people person. If you were looking for a site where people make mistakes, you have found the right place. We have people, posting to the wrong web sites, people who make freudian slips, misspelled words, and laughter. An mistake is only human, and sure it is natural to feel a little out of sorts after making one but don't let it dominate your life. Just carry on, because no one notices unless they are looking for one to call you on it. Most people do make mistakes and unless they are as I was, won't own up to it. Only cats are purrrfect, right Trubble? We can go fishing for Golden Trout, Trubble, but will need more than your claws as they are quite the fighters.

Lynn just told me of a phoopaw that I used to make, until recently I didn't introduce her to whomever, now that is an social error, if there ever was one. She said that I never noticed because we haven't had a todo over it. This set us both laughing.

Dinner time Trubble so I will sign off for now. Purr for Dr. Irene,

Dan

I know that my devils will, all I have to do is face them and identify them. Lynn told you that I told her of a dream from my childhood. We were going to our old therapist and the memory of this dream popped up. I was about 3 or 4 and this image, appeared in the room where I was sleeping. It's really hard to describe, but I'll try. It was a person (I think) the face was nothing but eyes, and it had a cloak on, and moved by swishing across the floor. It had no feet, rather a tail sort of, and it jumped at me, I threw the covers over it and ran to my parents bedroom, crying, and my dad brought me back into the room, tossed the covers aside, "See there's nothing there, now get back in bed and go to sleep." To this day I don't know why that nightmare stayed hidden until we were going through therapy.

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Theressa,

There, that should make you feel more comfortable. Dan went into the middle of his post and forgot to go back down. An unintentional Welcome To the Club.

Becky, Sean Connery would be my choice. The older he gets the better he looks. ^_^

Astrid,

How is that young man doing?

Asha, You have me giggling again. I wrote a note so I wouldn't mess up your name. Asha aka AK. :) Love your Buddha reply. GSOH

Dr. Irene and Trubble,

If you need to borrow my magic wand while I'm gone, it's Ok.

A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes,

Love, Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Lynn--

I would have mentioned Sean Connery, but didn't think my heart could take it! You're right! He gets better as he ages--sort of like fine wine! (I may have pleasant dreams tonight)!

Becky

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Becky,

Dan was just rereading the posts and I really brushed over your dad with the belt. Not because I don't care. It makes me shudder that big people can do that to precious little babies. ((((Hugs)))) to baby Becky.

Love,

Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Thanks, Lynn!

Only becky wasn't always very little when that was done. I remember one time when I was 13. I shook for hours afterward. My dad had a problem. I notice the lower case b again. I think I'll leave it.

(I don't like this. I'm crying, and I haven't cried about this in years!)

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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What is this with movie stars? I think Sean Connery is a great actor and it's true he got better looking as he got older. See Trubble, I don't have to say what a good looking guy looks like, the ladies are all saying it instead. I'm not going to waste any dreams on him, I'll dream of Sophia Loren or Rachel [Lynn's here! hint, hint] Welch.

To Astrid,

I can associate with chosen families, as I had one in high school. We are still very good friends. He is the one who sold me my first car. His son and I were best friends through school and they would include me in all family get togethers.

I'm sort of like you in crises situations, I can stay calm but there is also the red point, where even I can no longer stay calm. aka our last wildfire, when it looked like it was going to hit town, I called Lynn and told her to get the pets and our neighbors (the senior citizens) and get the h--- out. I wasn't very calm then. I'm afraid that I wouldn't be very good as an emergency responder either as I might be able to handle injured people but the deceased, I don't think I could take very well at all. Shades of Nam.

I also think that news reporting is going downhill. Reporters seem to think that they can dig into a "Named Person"'s past and report it derogatorially and claim they have the right because they're protected by the 1st amendment. (Lynn thinks) and how would you feel if you just watched your husband die? to the interviewers.

To Becky,

I re read your post and am sorry that I missed the belt, I subconsciously may have overlooked it, as my dad used one until I couldn't stand or sit all in the name of discipline. But as I said earlier, I can understand that now, as he was raised that way. And I remember those flash cameras, so I can sympathize with you, they were very scary when they went off. Fire for me is a different story, though as I've always found it fascinating. They have an old saying, that wildland firefighters must have a little pyromania in them to enjoy fighting them. And I do.

You telling of your graveyard experience reminded me of a day that Lynn and I were resoddng my grandmothers grave and we had our old Austrailan Shepherd with us. We have a picture of him laying next to the grave with his paws crossed as though waiting for us to dig him up a bone.

To Asha,

The bottom part of my last post was for you, I just got into the middle somehow, cyberspace gremlins, so my last was in between.

Dear Dr Irene,

Sorry about the misspelling earlier, I don't know what happened to the e, but Asha(AK) caught it. I am still sleeping like a normal person, and the dogs were even able to wake me up last night, so your advice and help is helping me. Thank You, I do know that I still have a long way to go.

Dear Lynn,

Yesterday was an unusual day, because of the misunderstanding about the luggage,(boxes) we usually know what either of us mean when we're talking about the luggage, so we were both not hearing or understanding. I apologize for that.

Trubble,

LOCO has decided that your tastes are better than his so now he meows nastily when I give him chicken with rice. He is beginning to believe Lynn when she calls him the King. He also has always posed for her when she gets the camera out. He's a cat who is a ham.

Hi Theressa, Welcome to the family, and we really are an uncommon group, as we help to be helped.

Take care all, Hugs and best wishes

Steve, if you're reading remember the Atocha.

Dan (Ben)

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Becky,

I don't know what to say. Now you have me weepy, too. How about just I Love You BECKY.

Lynn

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Becky,

I'm sorry too.

I didn't mean to bring up bad, sad memories.

Big Hugs

Dan

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Becky,

I'm doubly sorry. I posted about my dad and the belt before I read your last post, I don't mean to make anyone feel that bad. I'm teary too, thinking about us.

Hugs

Dan

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Date: Monday, October 02, 2000

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Dear Becky,

I have been workng on improving, or curing whatever you want to call it. I want to beat this thing but in posting I really don't want to hurt someone else. This maybe beating myself up, but words cannot express how I feel about bringing you back to reliving what your father did to you and the emotions involved because of these actions.

HUGE Embraces

Dan

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Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

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To All especially Becky,

My post above brought back terrrible memories for Becky, and it has really upset me.

I guess the post by Becky saying that she was 13 and that she was crying about these memories.

I don't ahave any idea what Becky went through but I believe that I was the same age or maybe 14 when I got my last whipping with a belt. I posted how my dad would beat me until I couldn't stand or sit, what I neglected to post was that he always beat me barea--ed. I know that these whippings always hurt so bad that I would think of ways to get even. After I became a teenager, these physical whippings probably didn't hurt as bad as the shame that I felt for having to drop my pants in front of an adult, even if he was my dad. I have made peace with him as far as the physical abuse but I still wonder about the barea--ed part. If the idea was to shame me as well as beat me (all in the name of discipline) he did a very successful job. I don't think much bout this part, because I have just put it in a closet n my mnd. I know that my grandfather went by the old adage, "Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child." I have no idea if he whippedmy dd the way my dad whipped me and I really don't want to know.

I know that the shame involved in this type of abuse, o te receivers part is tenfold, especially when you are a kid.

Becky, once againI'm sorry for allowing you to relive this time. I know that I don't wnt to but there are times when I do think about it.

I will get over that shame also!

Hugs to all

Dan

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

S1

To All especially Becky,

My post above brought back terrrible memories for Becky, and it has really upset me.

I guess the post by Becky saying that she was 13 and that she was crying about these memories.

I don't ahave any idea what Becky went through but I believe that I was the same age or maybe 14 when I got my last whipping with a belt. I posted how my dad would beat me until I couldn't stand or sit, what I neglected to post was that he always beat me barea--ed. I know that these whippings always hurt so bad that I would think of ways to get even. After I became a teenager, these physical whippings probably didn't hurt as bad as the shame that I felt for having to drop my pants in front of an adult, even if he was my dad. I have made peace with him as far as the physical abuse but I still wonder about the barea--ed part. If the idea was to shame me as well as beat me (all in the name of discipline) he did a very successful job. I don't think much bout this part, because I have just put it in a closet n my mnd. I know that my grandfather went by the old adage, "Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child." I have no idea if he whippedmy dd the way my dad whipped me and I really don't want to know.

I know that the shame involved in this type of abuse, o te receivers part is tenfold, especially when you are a kid.

Becky, once againI'm sorry for allowing you to relive this time. I know that I don't wnt to but there are times when I do think about it.

I will get over that shame also!

Hugs to all

Dan

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

S1

To All especially Becky,

My post above brought back terrrible memories for Becky, and it has really upset me.

I guess the post by Becky saying that she was 13 and that she was crying about these memories.

I don't ahave any idea what Becky went through but I believe that I was the same age or maybe 14 when I got my last whipping with a belt. I posted how my dad would beat me until I couldn't stand or sit, what I neglected to post was that he always beat me barea--ed. I know that these whippings always hurt so bad that I would think of ways to get even. After I became a teenager, these physical whippings probably didn't hurt as bad as the shame that I felt for having to drop my pants in front of an adult, even if he was my dad. I have made peace with him as far as the physical abuse but I still wonder about the barea--ed part. If the idea was to shame me as well as beat me (all in the name of discipline) he did a very successful job. I don't think much bout this part, because I have just put it in a closet n my mnd. I know that my grandfather went by the old adage, "Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child." I have no idea if he whippedmy dd the way my dad whipped me and I really don't want to know.

I know that the shame involved in this type of abuse, o te receivers part is tenfold, especially when you are a kid.

Becky, once againI'm sorry for allowing you to relive this time. I know that I don't wnt to but there are times when I do think about it.

I will get over that shame also!

Hugs to all

Dan

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

S1

Dear little dan and dear little becky,

I wish could take both of you and sit you on my lap, one on each knee and sing Hush Little Baby. We'd rock 'til all the hurt went away.

I Love you both,

Granny Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

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((((Dan, Lynn, Becky & Astrid too))))

Hugs to all of you.

Talking to Steve today we were thinking about how child abuse/neglect has been so rampant in our society, almost the norm, instead of healthy behavior. Steve hasn't read the recent posts yet, but was shocked when I told him about Dan's mother's way of teaching a baby to put up with bathing.

I have been resisting talking about Steve because it's his story to tell, but I do have to say that I am simply amazed at the transformation he is going through. I almost am afraid to believe it. I think some of his earlier posts made him really have to face what he was doing. Plus, I must say that Dr. Irene's advice for me to put the "Self" first, not engage, and to detach helped enormously. I have told Steve that I am still nervous that his behavior will revert back, but he said that it he would be lying to himself to turn back now; that he might as well shoot himself :). He also knows that I need time to see consistent change over a period of time in order to feel truly safe.

He actually agreed to visit my parents for Thanksgiving!! :) :)

I won't say much more, because it's his story to tell. Just that he is spending a lot of time examining and re-processing his beliefs and he will post when he's ready. I know you all can't wait! Me neither. But just know that what is happening is positive (underline)!! And it is mostly due to the contributions of Dr Irene and this website - round of applause please.

I've told Steve that Dan and David could really use him here, and don't worry Dan there are no hard feelings. (hope none of you have any either)

Dan, it's good to see that you're not resisting the tears. Steve has been shedding a few too. Okay I'll stop with his story, so he still has something to tell, when he is ready.

I really feel like the dream I had last night was about experiencing what it must have felt like to be in Steve's skin. It was not a pretty picture. I feel so much better today. It's just the beginning, but it's a very good beginning, for Steve and I.

I also want to say that I truly believe that all of your support and prayers have contributed greatly to the chain of events that have recently happened in my life and I deeply thank you for that.

hehe, I feel like I'm at the Academy Awards.. and I'd like to thank... my mom and dad for having me (tee hee) :)

I hate to see you guys hurting, so I hope this cheers you up.

love Asha (AK)

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Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

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One other thing I want to mention.

I've used the word "abuse" here a few times to describe my situation or others' situations, and yet I really dislike that word. That's because the image that comes to mind for me is someone who intentially hurts, someone who is "bad", someone for whom there is no treatment. It also seems to imply blame, as if it were that person's fault for doing it.

I wish I could think of another word for abuse and other words for abuser and victim.

This is not to undermine the seriousness of the effect on the recipient of the act(s). Just I think that more angry people would be willing to look harder at their dysfunctions if the word "abuse" were not so heavily associated with it. After all, those who inflict the bad treatment are victims themselves of bad treatment. And they either don't know any other way, or they are terrified to look at themselves closely or both.

I just can't think of what other words to describe it.

Just a note because I feel a bit wierd about my use of these terms in my posts and wanted to mention it.

Asha

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

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Sorry Lynn. I'm not able to post much now. But I wish you lots of good times on your vacation.

I'm fairly consumed with the task of dissolving my personality/ego and rebuilding something else. If anyone here has every done hallucinogenic drugs like lsd or magic mushrooms, maybe they can remember a certain trip in which they observed their personality dissolve. It's very similar. It's also quite like the feelings I've heard described by those who have oobe's and nde's (out of body and near death experiences). You really want to go somewhere, but you're fairly nervous about leaving your body behind.

I feel like a mystery traveller, invisible now. While observing my own fear and pain, I almost seem to hear peoples minds chattering. I'm wondering, if I dissolve completely, will I then be like a spirit who can move silently through other people, reading their minds? Maybe I won't want to put anything back together again too soon. If I start having too much fun in the dissolved state...(smile)

I should at least have a real good look around at the rest of the world - after I've looked at ME.

This is actually becoming enjoyable, after several days of hell. Well, there is still some fear and pain but it's becoming more like sensations rather than emotions. Hard to explain.

I've had light-bulbs go on over my head before. This seems much more intense than a puny 100 watter.

It's more like being in a dark stadium, where you can hear a faint cackle of voices but you can't see any bodies. And then, very suddenly, about 1 million megawatts of mercury vapor floodlights blast on, to illuminate the whole soccer field.

There you see your life. AND...interestingly enough, the lives of others who are players in your game. You can not only see your own problems, but everyone elses too! Ha. So now what? You realize you have to fix your own problems first, and then you can run out onto the field telling everyone -

"I did it! And you can do it too!"

I realize my thinking is a little abstract and dis-jointed. Not to worry. It feels completely natural for this state/phase/stage of my "enlightenment".

Thanks to everyone here, especially my dear AK. And...of course, our beloved Irene. Truly a princess of the realm.

"Someone" will be back soon. Grin.

Steve

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

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Dear (((Dan and Becky))),

I love you both. Wrap yourselves in an aura of Love and Safety. I hope tomorrows will be brighter.

Dear Asha (AK),

Me, too, Thank you all for the love and support and the caring and hugs. Together we have a lot of Faith and Strength. You deserve the Academy Award. Claps, Speech. (((AWARD))) <---Asha's Oscar

Dear Astrid,

Now I understand.

Dear Steve, (((Steve & AK))) Welcome Home. I knew you were out there. I make friends for life. I understand. I think you deserve a Purple Heart, too. (V) <---Steve's Purple Heart Stay strong. I think you just got through the easy part........

Dear Princess Irene, Doc.,

You have your own Magic Wand! I'm full of tears and goose bumps. I'm also bleeding again. When I get home I'll have to work on that. I want to slay the dragons. I can't stand to see those I care for hurt.

TRUBBLE, Loco says Dragon fin soup for dinner tonight.

Dear Theressa,

We're here for you,too .......................... We're quite a powerful team here, aren't we. Thank you Dr. Irene, is this what you mean when you say the rest is gravy?

Love and Faith to All of us,

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

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PS and a hehe,

My last post was all lined up and "pefect." It turned out connected. I got it!!! I have the print selection on LARGE so "I" can read it. Then when it gets zapped to "normal" on the board more words fit on the line. I'm learning. :)

Love,

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

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Hi again.

I was talking to Steve about dealing with others in pain and how we tend to take on their feelings.

Last night I sort of figured out where the problem occurs. We give the pain power.

If I had given in to my pain and not acted on my strength I don't know if Steve and I would be where we are today. By not giving pain power, we can act from a higher, more peaceful inner place.

I hope that makes sense.

Asha

p.s. my tombstone would say "she made the world a better place"

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

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Lynn here,

Maybe I better go spend Thanksgiving with my dad and slay some of my own dragons.

I heard, I wasn't ready...

Love, Lynn

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Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

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Dear Asha,

We must have been posting together Doo, doo.... Read the first post to G "Professional Abuser" from Dan and I. I think that could be said for you and Steve, too.

I don't know about the rest, but last night when Dan finally posted the last one, he had a tough time, yet he reread it and seemed to gain some power over "it" or something.

Then I want to take away his pain. I wish I could. Can't be done, though. I know! I've tried.

Much Love,

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

S1

Dear Group,

These are just my feelings and since I was here with Dan last night I guess it's fair to say how I felt.

Dan started talking to me before his longest post. I don't think he notices this, but he was bent over, like he was still being hurt. I can see him shrink before my eyes.

When he was telling me that he had to take is clothes off to be beat, all I could think of (and I'm having a tough time putting this into words), is that by undressing himself, somehow he was forced to assist in his own abuse. I think my terminology is mixed, but I think I know what I'm trying to say. Like a double shame. ??????

Stand tall and proud Dan. I'm proud of you. Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

S1

First, dear Dan, please don't feel bad! You'll make ME feel bad! :-) I talked to my therapist today and mentioned our group and how I had shared some of my past painful experiences. She asked me how I felt about going back in my head and talking to the little girl inside, and telling her all of things she should have heard back then. I had to laugh--the idea of being that caring toward myself is rather foreign to me! She said to start with something simple, like telling myself how creative I am (I wrote lots of stories and poems back then). I think that by doing this, I can begin to undo the damage that was done, and learn to trust my own assessment of myself. (I have real trouble thinking of myself as a smart, capable woman, despite concrete evidence that I am).

My parents weren't cruel people, and we had nice times in our family. But they didn't know how to handle certain things, and each one's own upbringing, I'm sure, handicapped them in some ways. My dad did what he thought was appropriate:tried to overpower and control. I'm sure that since money was tight, he hated to see food thrown away (although as far as I'm concerned, cooked spinach should be thrown away as often as possible!). I guess it never occurred to them to substitute something we DID like, such as beans, or fruit. We were not picky eaters; we ate most things. It seems reasonable to me to give us something else. (We always had a big garden, and I was forever eating raw vegies from it. Wouldn't that sub for icky spinich, or gross stewed tomatoes)?

I underestand your feelings of shame. Imagine the same thing happening to a GIRL of that age. Humiliating! I used to go to school the next day convinced that everyone KNEW what had happened to me, and convinced that no one else experienced the same thing. I feel the same way after my husband is particularly nasty and cruel. I'm afraid to go out among people, for fear that they'll "see" the ugliness. That's getting a lot better, though. It's his shame (and my dad's) not mine! So please, don't feel bad! I'm using this to help myself!

That leads me to what Asha said about giving pain power. I've done an awful lot of that my whole life! The pain of certain experiences and situations paralyzed me, or at least made it very hard to keep going forward. I have a good friend who has told me over the years that my strength and ability to keep going, and make some "good" in my life amazes him. I don't always recognize this strength--it's obscured by the pain, and the feelings of helplessness that come with it. But Asha, you are so right! If we can find that inner core of strength and use that as a starting point, we can do so much! And, I believe that those who respond positively to us when we are in the strength mode, are the ones we should have in our lives. If they feel threatened by our strength, they will constantly try to undermine us. They aren't always consious of doing that, but they will. I'm so glad that you're feeling more hopeful!

Steve, I was glad to read words from you. Glad that the lightbulbs are going off! Can you see that that is happening for all of us? Isn't it fun? I'm glad I'm not afraid of flashing lights anymore! Going inside to explore is scary and exhilarating! And it takes a lot of courage!

A last thought: I wasn't a bad kid. My sisters and I were normal kids who scrapped, sometimes didn't "listen," and got the occasional bad grade. We didn't deserve such harshness. There was a lot of stress in the family-tight money, one sister hospitalized a lot, my mom had all four of us one right after the other. I think that with all of that going on, the normal stuff seemed bigger than it was, and he reacted accordingly. My mom wasn't so physical but she called us "dumb bunnies." Pretty mild, but it's stuck with me all these years, so I guess it made an impression. Mostly she just stood by helpless, like she didn't want my dad to be so harsh, but she couldn't stop him. (What can you do with a man who yells at you because you didn't go to a store that had hotdogs 10 cents cheaper)?

Okay! Enough! Don't worry about me! I'm fine!

Becky

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

S1

Dear Becky,

I'm glad to hear from you. Glad you talked to your therapist, too, although I suspect Trubble walks these pages and would be here in an instant.

My turn, Trubble, I delivered a goodbye wish you well to the wrong mail box and just found it! Horray! I thought it was lost. Can you please zap it here where it belongs? Sorry, and this I had to do, as ours only posts where we are posting.

Love, Laughter, Tears and Tuna,

Lynn

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, October 03, 2000

S1

PS I think you are a mind reader Trubble, It's a G's Lynn