Comments to Quandary
B1: Submit Dr Irene wow I feel so special now ;o) hee hee. thank you! oh...its me Suz aka "the savvy poster".
(Such a better label then codependent)!
I am so glad you wrote that article! because
I constantly find myself where it can be
manipulated and twisted into appearing my boundaries are abusive and it
creates doubt and confusion and unfortunately guilt. I have to admit I
fall into trying to get HIS
approval, ugh! But I am so glad I figured it out. because he had me
pretty convinced I was crazy yesterday.
Even though intellectually I know that's something typical of an abuser
because I have read about it. I still doubted myself and questioned my
sanity. I thought well its pretty obvious he is the abuser being our
relationship was very physically and sexually abusive before. I have
noticed as I have been really putting my foot down with setting limits,
he is getting more
difficult - and gosh I thought it was difficult before. Yet I read
about how he would probably react negatively, but it took me a while to
recognize
that's what was happening. I see it like the child who was spoiled
because the parents always gave into the tantrums and taught their
child that tantrum behavior gets rewards.
Then, when they decide to shape up and not give in, the child's
tantrums get worse before they learn that
misbehavior won't do it anymore. That's where detachment comes in. It helps to feel confident in yourself and your decisions and
opinions. I have learned so much but its that 'making it mine' and truly 'owning' the things I am learning that hold me up.
YES YES YES YES! I have to tell you that boundaries book you
recommended is GREAT!!! I am really getting a lot out of it! "Boundaries: When to Say Yes and When to Say No..." by Cloud and Townsend.
First of all to those who don't know my
situation, he and I have been married a little over 10 years. 6 years
ago he started getting very sexually abusive, forcing him self on me
when he was very drunk.
It was a physical battle where he held me down and we literally fought.
I would kick him trying to get away and he would punch my legs to make
me stop.
Then when he was "finished" he would fall asleep and I would clean my
self up and lay there and cry, swearing I would leave in the morning...
but my responsibilities to my family would change my mind. I thought I
was
sacrificing me for my kids to have a "whole" family. We all lost me,
and its been a tough uphill battle for the past two years, finding
myself and getting educated. Two years ago I gave up and
couldn't handle any more. I told him we were over, Now, of course, it
wasn't the first time, but this time he knew I really meant it. So he
went into rehab and got help for his drinking and we agreed to work on
our marriage.
(Although I really didn't want to I just felt I had to since he was
getting help
- like I had been begging for for years. I didn't think I could leave
when he was finally doing what I had been asking him to do to save our
marriage.)
I find the more I learn and educate myself the more secure I am in my
self
confidence.
I not only had the issues to deal with from
the sexual abuse/rape from my husband, but previous to meeting my
husband I was raped.
So, I had that issue to deal with as well. My husband has used that as
an excuse to why I was so "inhibited" and had "hang ups" with sex. The
fact is there is nothing wrong with me, I just do not feel comfortable
with the things he considered okay between a husband and
wife. Things that were not okay with me. I had no interest in doing the
things they do in pornos! That is just me and my feelings and how I
feel about making love. What I experience with him is not making love
to me.
Emotionally its painful because I do not love him, both essential for
the emotional attachment and closeness I need to feel to participate. I
stuffed my feelings down and gave in to avoid the long fights that
would follow any rejection.
Here are some posts of mine from when I started standing on that foot I put down.
day 1 of enforcing my personal boundaries regarding sex.
Is sex really that big of a deal? I mean if
your partner doesn't want to and you tell them
"No," is it normal for them to ignore you and just keep going on and on
trying to get you to
- and then get all mad and say you are being mean because you don't
want to?
Personally I feel its not being very nice to expect me to when I don't
want to.
I have read about how sex to men is when men feel connected to their
partner and feel close and loved. I get confused because I hear you
should try to even if you
don't feel like it, so he can feel loved etc. But then that doesn't at
all seem like I am taking care of me very well. I am trying to enforce
my boundaries and not allow my self to be
manipulated, but I feel if I go ahead and have sex with him when he is
bugging the heck out of me and I really
don't want to, then I am just giving into coercion. Yes.
this morning I woke up at 4 am to him trying
to have sex with me. I kept trying to get him to leave me alone and
finally he stopped and asked me to come have coffee with him. so while
I was pouring the coffee he was all over me trying to take my clothes
off. I kept telling him to stop. Then I told him to quit bugging me and
drink his coffee.
He then started going on about how hard he works at a job he hates, to
take care of our family and how hard he has been working on our yard
(after neglecting it for a couple years). I am being mean to him by not
giving him a chance to be with me.
he has started reading Codependency: Dance of the Wounded Souls. GREAT book! He
has been trying to work on communicating better with me. He feels he is
trying really hard on our relationship. I am just burnt out and still
want out.
He has begged me to stay and work on the relationship so much, and I
have stayed and worked on it.
But what I notice is I am the one doing all the work. He points out to
me his issues are for him to work on and not for me to worry about.
That is the Al Anon idea. But his issues are negatively affecting me,
and I don't
see him doing much to work on himself. I find myself angry again.
Day 2. Today my H started pawing on me. I
reflected on all the words of advice and my personal boundaries, and
even though he was being very nice, I still
didn't want him touching me. There has been too much madness for too
long, and a lack of feelings of love at least on my part.
So I kept asking him to stop. He then started saying, "I don't want to
be in that aggressive, hostile place you are
in. Come on, quit dwelling on the past and think about where we are in
life now..."
The funny thing about my husband is yesterday is always the past, so no
matter what he has done, he loves to pull the
don't bring up the past line. Even though it was recent!
I stood my ground and spoke of the things from her email to me about
mutual respect and having respect for my body and its not his property
and he
can't go and disrespect me then expect to have me. Just last night he
was so angry at me for forgetting to change my
daughter's bedding because the night before she had an accident, that
he wouldn't
shut up. He kept on and on at me about it. So I went downstairs to
sleep. A few minutes later he came down with her
bedding and threw it on me saying, "Here you sleep with it; then maybe
you will remember to take care of your child."
Of course he doesn't seem all that angry with himself given his
abusive, destructive ways
are the reason she wets her bed to begin with! I cant wait to leave!
he started to talk to me like there is something wrong with me. He
said,
"When I listen to you talk, I just feel so sorry for you and where you
are stuck." I said,
"Oh well, when I look behind me at you and see how far down you are and
how you
haven't even begun to try and help yourself, I feel very sorry for
you." He said,
"Well that was very condescending and intellectual of you. I was just
stating my opinion." I said,
"Well, I was just stating mine. I am totally aware of your abuser head
games and I think you are upset that they
won't work on me." Okay I know I acted like an abuser huh? I was
thinking about what I was reading in the boundaries book and how you
can't stay in that angry victims rights place; you eventually need to
be able to be loving to everyone. I am determined to not let him
confuse me; he is so good at it because when I listen to him and his
twisted thought process, I understand how he believes the crazy things
he believes.
He started in on me about how frustrated he
is with me in the things I do and don't
do. He cant stand I put so much time into my recovery and let the house
slip. I used to be such a perfectionist. I
suffered from exhaustion several different times trying to be
superwoman. Well not anymore!
The house comes last! Any way, as he was complaining to me about my
time on the computer and talking about how bad it was that I forgot to
change her
bedding, I told him, "Yes I do get forgetful and make mistakes. Its
very hard to function properly under the stress of your abuse.
When we were separated and I wasn't even being treated for my
depression and our whole world was very chaotic, I did great! I handled
everything fine and everything went smoothly because the stress of your
abuse was removed.
(He has been reading "Codependency dance of the wounded souls"). His
response
was that he has been reading all about just how I am waving the book
around. Why
doesn't he recognize his own characteristics? You know, as I read
everything, yes, I recognize his traits but I also recognize my own. Good for you! You won't get too far if you don't do this.
Day 3. Okay. Well yesterday I decided to really enforce my personal boundaries. I
don't want to be intimate with him; its making me depressed so I am not going to!
Its just simply out of the question! and that's that. Oh boy, what a reaction!!! Anyhow
this is what
happened yesterday. He kept bugging; I kept rejecting. Finally last
night he got mad!
Said I was being mean to him! Playing games with his head and torturing
him! It wasn't
fair because he really really wanted to be with me; he was desperate! I
held my ground and told him he
doesn't have the right to my body; he doesn't own it! I said, "I am not
being mean to you; I am taking care of me for a change!"
He said, "This is torture." Then he said, "I can't sleep next to you
its torture." I said,
"Fine," and I went downstairs to sleep on the couch for a second night
in a row.
A little while later he came down all wound up about how some guy on
the computer is telling me to treat him like that and he is telling me
what to do and say.
"Someone who understands you and you connect with!" (All mad and
sarcastic.) I said, "No, I am practicing my personal boundaries and
taking care of myself!"
He then started saying, "Well if you want to play this, well I can too.
You
don't want to take care of me; well I can do the same back to you.
That's not a threat,
that's a promise! You just see... and if some guy is telling you to
treat me like this, then I am going to bust that computer up into
little pieces!"
He went on for a while about "wait and see...." Like I am shaking with
fear over what he is no longer going to do for me!!!!
Then, first thing this morning he wakes me up at 5 saying he just woke
up (that's the time he has to leave) and can I help him out.
So I did. I probably shouldn't have though!
Well, there you have it the past two days of trying to take care of myself and enforce my boundaries.
I just don't get how sex can be that much to
him! you should have seen how overly desperate he was, begging.
It wasn't about reconnecting or feeling loved; he was just down right
horny and wanted some relief.
And its only been a few days! So, if you guys go 3 days without, is it
so torturous to sleep in the same bed with your W that she must go
sleep on the couch or you wont be able to sleep?
He said, "Fine. If you wont fulfill my needs, I wont fulfill yours!"
Oh my gosh! Now I am going to have to live with unmet needs; how will I
ever manage??? I guess the same way I have for over 10 years of unmet
needs!!!
What a threat! What nerve to threaten such a thing! Yeah he loves me
alright! No doubt about that one!
He is so incredibly worried about me being depressed, yet if it means
going with out
getting some, that's a whole other story! Well if I don't feel like a
piece a meat now! Day
4.
Today's been rough. This morning he started giving me a hard time for
rejecting him.
He was asking what my problem is. and I explained about the disrespect
etc. He said,
"Well, you are not respectful to me and you have to give to get." I
said,
"Yes you do. YOU have to give to get, so you keep waiting." When I
pointed out instances of disrespect, he said I was crazy and mentally
sick and these things
didn't take place. Then he had excuses for the way he has treated me in
the last two days that are not far enough in the past for him to deny
it taking place.
Then he started threatening me if I leave him and do him wrong, the
things he has done in the past will be nothing compared to what he will
do to me and
"remember that." He went on about how I am suffering from depression
and he is not the cause and I need to just have my meds changed or
something, and I need professional help and I am not going to take our
family down with me.
On and on. I tried to leave when he first started saying things I
didn't feel I should have to stay and listen to, but he
wouldn't let me go. I kept saying to let me go and stop holding me
down. He said,
"I am only hugging you." Well, I was trying to get away and he was
"hugging" me so I
couldn't leave, even when I repeatedly asked him to. I started to cry
because he
was swearing up and down he hadn't done things he has done and he was
saying I am distorted etc. I have written these things down right
afterwards!
Because I keep a journal. He was mad when I told him, "Yes, you have
and I have written them down."
Anyhow, I started feeling like I am crazy and I called my aunt. She got
her emotional abusive husband out of the house.
She was telling me how already she is feeling so much better and all
the things she is doing.
She said once I get out of there, I will feel better. She also told me
her ex had made all the same threats and never did any of it.
Not a fun first few days as you can see, but I am doing much better now and had some GREAT
support that really helped!!!
What would get my head spinning were the
times I was "human" and reacted.
Just like Dr I said in the article, "Nobody is perfect. Not even the
saintliest victim will maintain his or her cool all the time. Not even
the most self-sacrificing victim will never ever be passive-aggressive
or (gasp) controlling. (In fact, victims are extremely controlling.)
The point is, we are human; we mess up all the time.
"Unfortunately, the abuser person is expert
at immediately picking up a slight or momentary acting out. This
guarded person is likely to mentally keep tabs, or never let the victim
forget their misbehavior. The victim, often too expert at soul
searching, gets lost in wondering if they are the abuser - while the
abuse continues."
Yes, this describes it to a tee! I have
tried to explain this to him and he turns it around.
Exactly where my confusion would come in. So if I can be human and
react, then he can be human and react. So then he accuses me of blaming
him for my behavior, and he claims his behavior is because of mine and
my denying his needs ... grrrrr! its a crazy cycle. Why we shouldn't
even bother to explain anything, but then how do you work on the
relationship that way.
An excerpt from Nicoles great advice:
"You have to understand that you don't need others' approval to do what
you feel is right. You have to learn to listen to and trust yourself
again."
You know, I was told to prepare for him to get worse as I set my boundaries, but I guess I
didn't realize it would be like this.
I don't think I can emotionally handle
hanging around for when it finally gets better.
Just to get to this point has been extremely hard on me. The way I feel
about him now I
don't care if he becomes prince charming tomorrow; too much has
happened in the past and throughout
the past couple years I have been trying to work on my recovery. Every
time I get up, I seem to let him slam me back down again, and I cant
take it.
Here are some urls to some of the great support I was given that helped me so much so
- maybe it can help you as well.
http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb654279&MyNum=954355714&P=Yes&TL=954268375
http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb654279&MyNum=954365884&P=Yes&TL=954268375
http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb654279&MyNum=954476393&P=Yes&TL=954268375
http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb654279&MyNum=954709068&P=Yes&TL=954549870
http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb654279&MyNum=954767647&P=Yes&TL=954549870
http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb654279&MyNum=954538800&P=Yes&TL=954467690
http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb654279&MyNum=954539177&P=Yes&TL=954467690
Now for those of us who know we need to get
out, but need a little push or inspiration to make that first step;
here is a long post that I put my all into trying to give motivation
and it helps me too.
http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb654279&MyNum=954525125&P=Yes&TL=954467690
Best of luck to everyone!
Thank you again Dr Irene for this great site and I know you have heard
this probably many many times but gosh do I wish I would have found
this site a long time ago!
Love Suz
(recovering co-dependent) Keep up the great, self-loving
work! Dr. Irene
B1: Submit Hey,
we can ALL be confused!!!
I just helped extract my sister from the physical environment of an
abusive 15 year relationship who now is also experiencing the same
confusion. But while there, I was shocked to realize that much of my
own behavior has many similarities w/her estranged husband.
Chilling!!!!!
Now, w/my former wife's help and insight, I'm trying to more fully
realize and deal with these issues myself.
Of course my sister and I were also Victims of 'unintended' abuse from
our Father and Mother, etc., who themselves were victims, etc., etc.,
etc.,
As I also just realized, the 'Boundary' issue becomes even more
confusing between Parents and Kids. Especially Teen Age Girls!!!! Ouch!! Here's the good part: Once you own it, you can
change it. Good for you! B1: Submit I
can definitely relate to the poster. I have all of those situations
happening in my marriage. My husband sees himself as the victim of my
bad behavior and is angry about it. The only thing is, he started it.
He would come home from work 4 or 5 days in a row and not even speak to
me. Then, the next day, he'd want sex. And don't think he'd open the
seduction with an apology, because he didn't. Despite the fact that
this has gone on for years, he has the nerve to be indignant about all
the advances he's made toward me that I have not responded to. The
thing that I find really scary is he says he can't see his own
behavior. He has been saying that for a long time and seems baffled and
disturbed by it. Any comments? Believe him; he can't. B1: Submit Listen to yourself. Listen to yourself. Listen to what your body is telling you.
But,.....listen to what your body is telling
you. People lie, or are mistaken constantly.
And sometimes people just have honest
differences in opinion. The easiest thing
is to feel justified in one's position. If
you listen to people who want to feel justified in their position, or try to
convince them they are wrong, you are nowhere. If your body doesn't want to make
love, then it doesn't want to. Listen to it. B1: Submit Hi...I
have a similar situation of not knowing who is the abuser/victim. I
have been with this man for two years (living together presently), and
most of the time am very happy. But when things get bad (about 1-2
times per week), they are horrible. I never know what to think or how
to react. And I don't know if he's abusive or not. He calls me names a
lot, but only when he's angry, which a lot of people do (I never have,
so I assume other people shouldn't, but I know that everyone is
different). I'll give a few examples...
He rarely wants to do anything with my
friends or family, and rolls his eyes/sighs/etc. if I am talking with
them on the phone or say they are coming over. He's very secretive, but
says it's because I'm very nosey (which I guess sometimes I can be, but
I don't see myself that way). He screams at me when he's mad, and says
terribly mean things, but says it's only because I provoke it; that if
I left him alone he wouldn't have to do that, but "hounding him" is
abusive and is what makes him do it. He'll tell me how
stupid/crazy/terrible I am and it hurts, but he doesn't seem to want to
stop when he realizes it hurts. And then I'll cry, and he'll say
something like, "oh, and now the tears," or "can't you handle
anything?" And he'll say that I only cry to make things worse, and that
no one else would put up with how emotional I am, can't I see how
abusive that is, etc. This is where I get confused of who is the
victim. I don't mean to hound him; I just usually want to talk things
out, and be heard as a part of the relationship. He'll roll his eyes,
keep watching
TV, leave the room, etc., and I get angry and say something like, "why
can't you listen to me" or "please let me talk." His response is
usually, "why, so you can nag me like you always do?" or "You're only
going to say the same thing you always do; poor you who has to put up
with me (which I've NEVER said)...what about the sh** I have to put up
with to be with you?" Or something similar. It hurts so bad, but
telling him doesn't seem to make a difference. He also picks things
apart for no reason and says I'm being too sensitive. I'm known for
being sensitive, so I don't know if I'm overreacting or not. For
example, last night we were in bed, laughing at the
TV, getting along great. I put my hand on his side and said, "good
night, honey." He made a noise, and I pulled my hand away (I thought
maybe I was hurting him or something). He yelled at me for overreacting
and pulling my hand away. I told him why, and that I didn't mean
anything by it, and he said, "that's so predictable of you. You always
do the same things over and over. Why can't you be yourself?" (I'm not
sure what that meant). I tried to explain myself, and he said, "See, I
knew you were going to do that." So I just rolled over to go to sleep,
and he said, "I knew you were going to do that, too." It was really
annoying. I started to say something, and he said, "I'm not even
listening to you. I'm going to sleep. Just leave me alone." And that
was it. I have no idea what it was about. That's a good example of
daily interaction. If I try to continue conversations after something
like that, that's when he says I'm hounding him and dragging it out (I
"can't let anything go"), and that if he tells me to leave him alone
and I don't, then I don't respect him. I'll tell him that I don't see
how he can love me and talk to me the way he does, and he'll say, "well
how do you think it feels to love someone as much as I love you and
they can't even see it?" It hurts so bad, and then I think maybe he's
right...maybe he just loves me so much and I'm expecting too much (he
says I expect more than any man could give, and I know that I do have
high expectations). I don't mean to hurt him or bother him (he says I
bother him a lot), and maybe I am overbearing. That's my confusion. If
I am that way, then he has every right to be angry, and maybe I deserve
for him to yell at me. But I never ask him for anything, except to
listen to me. That's it. I don't ask him to spend time with me (he does
that anyway; he's very good about it). I don't ask him for material
favors or things, and I've never asked him to change anything except to
listen to me when I'm talking to him, and to not make fun of what I'm
saying. He says if I'm saying the same thing all the time, then why
should he listen? I don't understand...I don't think I say the same
things over and over. I don't see myself as annoying or emotionally
unstable as he says, but my mom teases me sometimes for being
emotional, so maybe I am. Maybe I'm emotionally abusing him and don't
realize it. Oh, and the only physical "abuse," if I can call it that,
that he's done is once he punched a hole in my wall when he was angry,
he sometimes puts his hand over my mouth and screams, "shut up! shut
up!", (but it's usually when I'm talking very fast because I'm upset
about something), and he sometimes grabs me. He very often gets about
an inch from my face and screams at me, usually after I ask him not to
talk to me a certain way and he's telling me that he can say whatever
the f*** he wants. I hate that, and he knows it. But I can't really
call that physical abuse, can I? He's never hit me or even threatened
to. Please help me understand. Any comments or feedback would be
appreciated. Thanks. I think he is clearly abusive. Also, screaming in your
face and punching a wall is way too close to physical abuse for my comfort; you
are sensitive and emotional - that's good. Start listening to your emotionality
and sensitivity. It's trying to tell you something. Dr. Irene B1: Submit to the previous poster:
when you go back and read over what you have
written does it jump out at you just how abusive he is to you? because
he most certainly is! I ask because I have many times gone through the
same confusion. I keep a journal and write everything down. later when
I go back and read over what I am questioning I cant believe I was
confused.
have you read the articles Dr. Irene has about signs of abuse? here's a great one:
signs of verbal and emotional abuse
http://drirene.com/verbal1.htm
go to the site map
http://drirene.com/contents.htm
Its nice to read and recognize he is being
abusive but you also need to read and recognize why you are in that
relationship and putting up with it. why
aren't you taking care of you? You are concerned about how you make him
feel but you
don't sound very concerned with how he makes you feel. Exactly
my take. It sounds to me like your needs are going unmet and neither one of you seem to care. Yet you both care about his needs.
Clearly you believe you deserve this poor treatment and you don't deserve what you want or you
wouldn't be there. The way we are treated by others is a reflection of how we feel about ourselves inside.
You aren't married so why don't you just leave? Spend some time at the message boards reading and see if that's
the direction you want to continue going in.
I HIGHLY recommend you read Boundaries- When to say Yes, When to Say No, To Take Control of Your Life
by Cloud and Townsend.
also I would suggest you read The verbally abusive relationship by Patricia Evans.
Here's some great words of Dr Irene's from one of her latest articles!
"Put your foot down. Set limits. Not allow your partner to disrespect you."
"If you want a prince all the time, be a
princess. Don't accept any behavior from him that you would not inflict
on another person yourself."
"So, if you are having the codependent's
typical difficulty in putting your foot down since it feels too
"selfish" or you feel too "guilty," etc., think of it this way: when
you put your foot down, you help him self-correct by creating the space
he needs to correct himself in."
Best wishes to you!
Suz :)
B1: Submit Great question! Great Answer!! Sure clears up a lot. (Believe me or not) smile* Peg B1: Submit This
was a great big step for you. After knowing you for so many years...all
I can say is that I'm proud of you for setting your boundaries and
coming to the realization that you're not crazy. :) B1: Submit Suz-
I loved reading your input but I want to speak up in response to your response to the previous poster-
(what a mouthful!) Not being married doesn't make it any easier to leave. Yes,
practically it's easier, espeically if there are no kids involved, but if someone is
serious and ready to get away from their abuser, being married, finances, kids,
won't stop them. I find some women use these things because, like anyone who has been
emotionally abused, they lack to self-confidence to really get out. I'm not married to
my abuser, we've only been together a year- a lot of other victims have sneered at me
"just leave him, you're not married!" I have a hard time believing that the married abusers
were never abusive at all until after they got married. The fact is, victims are emotionally
beat down by their abusers and usually their pasts (obviously we were trained to question
ourselves and wonder, for instance, if WE'RE the abusive ones because we try to behave
normally and speak with our mates) and it's very hard to leave. In order to leave, a victim
has to CLEARLY see exactly how abused she has been, make a decision that she won't be
treated like that anymore, and then make good on her promise to herself. All three steps
are hard and it's a slow process- but I think reading about other victim's experiences
is extremely helpful!
Love,
SatokoGirl B1: Submit It
took me a very long time to understand that ABUSERS ALWAYS BLAME THEIR
PARTNERS FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR! I was involved in an abusive relationship
for a year and a half, and every time I had to discuss something with
this man he always came back at me! It was never, EVER, his fault, it
was always me who "was never happy". "I just can't make you happy".
Instead of trying to listen, work things out, he ALWAYS threw it right
back to me. I was walking around feeling incredibly guilty all the time
that I was "mistreating" this person. Looking at the picture, I treated
him extremely well, did WAY MORE for him then he ever did for me and he
just COULDN'T step up to the plate! Listen to this one...and this was
after several of his outbursts of rage, name calling, hang-ups,
walk-outs, etc. It was MY BIRTHDAY. On his birthday, I cooked him a
huge dinner and bought him a new suit. On my birthday, he called and
said Happy Birthday. I waited around all day for him to stop by or send
me flowers or something. He did nothing!!! At the end of the day when
he called on the way to one of his "client appointments", I told him
calmly, that I was hugely disappointed that he didn't do anything to
recognize my birthday. Immediately, he came back at me and said "IT'S
ALWAYS SOMETHING, ISN'T IT? YOU'LL ALWAYS BE LIKE THIS, F--- YOU! Then
he hung up on me. He kept calling back, (one of his patterns) and said
"my flowers were in the car waiting to be delivered". He showed up at
my place at 9:30 EMPTY HANDED and when confronted about the flowers he
said "you acted out so bad that I threw them out the window"!!!!!!!
I didn't speak to him for three months, made
the mistake of going back with him after all of his sorrowful voice
messages, crying about how sorry he was and how wonderful I was. My dad
became terminally ill...and the final incident was that he RAGED out at
me again when my dad was very ill in critical care at the hospital and
we went out to breakfast. My meal was eggs benedict $8.75. He saw the
check and made a big deal about how much the dish was, how did they
substantiate it, etc. I asked him please not to say that because it
made me unconfortable. Note: this man slept at my apt. EVERY weekend,
used my shower, ate my food, and never even walked in with a role of
toilet paper! After I told him my feelings about his comments about the
check, he FLIPPED OUT AT ME AND SAID "I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING WRONG! I'M
LEARNING THAT THIS IS WHO I AM AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT TOO BAD!!! THE
HE PROCEEDED TO RAGE AT ME IN THE CAR, CALLING ME A F--- BITCH,
CLAIMING THAT "I WAS HIS PROBLEM". It was even worse than that. He was
banging things around in his van. I finally convinced him to take me
home, and I jumped out of the car immediately and he said "good you
f--- bitch"! ...then he threw my belongings into the parking lot and
broke them. Of course, he called me nine times and left voice messages.
I knew I would never be talking to him again as I had learned my lesson
this time - SOMEONE ABUSING ME ON MY BIRTHDAY, AT CHRISTMAS, NEW
YEAR'S, AND NOW WHEN MY FATHER IS DYING!!!!!!! Abusers don't care what
the occasion is, they don't understand boundaries. They are frustrated,
mixed up human beings with low self esteem, forever looking for someone
to BLAME. And we are their scapegoats!!
THAT WAS THREE MONTHS AGO AND I WILL NEVER SPEAK TO HIM AGAIN.
So, moral of the story is TRUST YOUR
INSTINCT. If you think you are right, don't let ANYONE convince you
that you are "THEIR PROBLEM" and the reason why they act they way they
do....GET OUT NOW!!!
COMMENTS ANYONE?
If someone else told me this story, I would
have wondered why they didn't get out a long time ago. But I let myself
become a victim....I thought I was causing the problems and I was even
going to start trying to change MY personality to work around his! B1: Submit SatokoGirl,
I totally agree. I was not at all trying to
say its simple because you are not married. she has been living with
him for 2 years if I recall correctly. I was with my abuser for 4 and
1/2 years before we got married. we lived together for two years prior.
I
didn't want to marry him! but I did! because he loved me soooo much,
and I allowd him to push me into it. when I look back now I wish I
could of read all of this so I could see where my life was heading. so
many believe well once we get married he will change, once we have a
baby he will change,... I waited for changed for a very long time! I
know its not easy especially when you live together, it already feels
like you are married and the next step is marriage. I am just trying to
help her realize how bad her situation is and how much worse its going
to get not better and how much much more
difficult it is once you are married and have children. Believe me I
understand and looking back I can still remember what I felt but I also
have the experience of beyond that time. I was just trying to encourage
her and help her get on that path.
Just like when Dr Irene says "if you are so miserable why are you still
with him?" we know it dosnt feel that simple, however its a very
thought provoking question that helps gear you towards thinking about
what YOUR feelings are and stopping considering his so much. I know it
was his feelings that kept me there not mine I finally got to the point
I hated him and still stayed because I didnt want to hurt him!!! even
though he was hurting me constantly! I was trying to provoke thought
and help her not feel so tied to her situation, give her some thoughts
to help her take that leap and set herself free befor she is where I am
now. I wanted her to read that and feel that little light go off, YEAH,
I am not even married to him I can walk away right now if I want to...
I encouraged her to read at the message board to see where things can
go so she can feel more empowered about taking that step forward.
much luck to you!
Suz
B1: Submit Satoko Girl,
I wanted to address this a little further:
Your comment: "Not being married doesn't
make it any easier to leave. Yes, practically it's easier, espeically
if there are no kids involved, but if someone is serious and ready to
get away from their abuser, being married, finances, kids, won't stop
them. I find some women use these things because, like anyone who has
been emotionally abused, they lack to self-confidence to really get
out."
I had gotten to the point I hated my
husband! I wanted out so badly. I thought I was the only one being hurt
though. I thought I was sacrificing myself for the benefit of my
children. Time and time again so many women stay because they want
their children to have both parents, a whole family. It was a struggle
each day. To me my priorities were my kids were number 1. What is best
for them is to have their mother home with them for the first 5 years
of life. So I was determined to at least stay until my last one was 5.
I thought to myself what
wouldn't I sacrifice for my children. I was responsible for them and
their well being. What I did not know was how damaging staying in this
situation was to them. I thought I was doing what was best for them. I
let my beliefs and
responsibilities rule me. I knew I needed out but I kept trying to just
hang in there. I gave my self a mental date of if he
hasn't changed by the time my last one is in school we are gone. she
starts school next fall and I am preparing to leave this summer. He has
improved a great deal over the last 2 years, but things are still not
acceptable. the level of abuse is just lower. But how much more damage
will happen to my children in the time it may take him to recover when
there is still so much he dosnt recognize? I felt if I left for my
happiness that would be too selfish of me because I would be
sacrificing my childrens happiness for mine. It
wasn't an excuse it was my very strong beliefs were wrong! I needed to
get educated and change my beliefs. Just like the abusers do. Many
people told me to get out. But I
couldn't be that selfish! Now my kids have become a huge motivator to
have the strength and courage to get out because I have learned they
are being groomed to take on our roles. I
don't want that for them. Its so scary to leave and know you have to be
responsible for them on your own. If its just you and you get out and
only have to take care of yourself it would be much easier. Right now I
have to figure out how I am going to take care of 3 kids, go back to
school, and maintain a home. what I will be awarded for child care and
alimony wont be quite enough to live off of so some how I will have to
manage working and take care of them and go back to school, which means
I would need to pay for some child care as well. I am currently looking
into all kinds of student loans to try to make sure I can get back to
school. Now what do you think would happen if I left and then he
decided to leave his job and get a low paying job (like he has
threatend to do if I leave) so he wont have to pay me much? there is so
much more to consider. if its used as an "excuse" its a darn good one.
I always thought his abuse was because of
his drinking. I thought if he would just quit drinking he would always
be that wonderful person I got a glimpse of now and then. He kept
telling me he would quit, and I wanted to believe him. we bought him
countless things to make him happy that he would quit drinking for.
motorcycles, cars, 4x4s, wood working power tools (he has a whole shop
in our garage we spent thousands on he hardly ever uses).
My brother in law is a social worker and he
told me I have to take care of me first then the girls, a couple years
ago. but I
didn't get it at the time. I was so worried about doing what's best for
the girls. Someone once told me whatever is best for me is what is best
for the girls. But seeing them cry and feel such pain when we
separated last year was so horrible! I felt so bad for trading their
happiness for mine. If I had only known then what I know now!!! and I
know I still have so much more to learn.
I went a very long time where every night he held me down and forced
himself on me. He yelled at me about how he knew I was giving it away
to everyone all day and
that's why I was rejecting him and that he isn't gona let me say no to
him, he is my husband. He would force himself anyway he wanted no
matter how much I cried and begged him to stop. when he was "done" and
would fall asleep. I would be filled with pain and rage. I would say
that's it I am leaving now right now! then I thought I cant take my
children out in the middle of the night and drive on a long desolate
freeway! that would not be responsible! okay then I will wait till the
morning then first thing we are gone! morning would come, I would be
calmed down have so many
responsibilities and think of my children and see them so excited to
play with daddy and how much they loved him and he loved them and
of course he would be sweet as pie to me in the morning not remembering
anything from the night before and not understanding how I could be so
distant and uncaring to him. poor him!
If you KNOW he is an abuser and he does not
see anything wrong with his behavior then you know he is not going to
change, things are not going to get better, and will most likely get
progressively worse then get out now and work on your recovery alone!
you
don't need anyone tearing you down while you are trying to get up.
I wish you the best and please don't follow
my path! Its a very long painful one, and not necessary to travel as
far as I did before
taking a turn. My step mother stayed in her abusive marriage for 30
years until he passed! she looks back and gets angry sometimes over the
wasted years and
tries to just focus on how great her life is now. I see whats become of
her 4 children and its so very sad. she was a great mother but it
didn't stop the damage from being done. I will not throw away any more
years and I
don't want you to either.
Love Suz
B1: Submit This
is in response to Suz's note who suggested looking at Dr. Irene's
Verbal and Emotional Abuse list. I shared it with someone who is unsure
if her husband is abusive. She says he sometimes ignores her feelings,
disrespects her, criticizes her, tries to convince her he is right
while she is wrong, criticizes and yells at her. But, he NEVER does
things like: give her the silent treatment; a hard time about
socializing; does not seem energized by fighting, does not try to
control decisions, money, style of hair or clothes; does not threaten
to leave or throw her out (in fact, just the opposite); has never left
her stranded; does not use drugs or alcohol; has never hit or pushed
her accidentally, etc. On the other hand, she has wished for his
softer, more vulnerable side to be present more than it is and hopes
things will change through love and understanding. B1: Submit Oops!
I hit the submit button accidentally. In response to my note regarding
whether my friend's husband is truly abusive, what is your opinion?
Thanks. B1: Submit DR Irene:
Thank you very much for posting this topic: Quandary: Who Is The Victim/Abuser?
I have to say in hindsight that one of the
most beneficial things that ever happened to me was when I was arrested
for mutual combat; I assaulted my abuser! I had endured so much for so
long that I exploded. I felt completely justified, my mind set during
the time of the incident was, "You have thrown something at me 50
times, now here is something for YOU!" Which I later discovered in
counseling is defined as "revenge" anger.
The charges were dismissed against me, he
now has a record because that was not his first incident among other
variables such as the severity of his assault toward me, but had I not
been arrested I don't know how long it would have taken me to discover
that I was behaving destructively as well. I did admit to the court
that I was concerned that my rage was out of control and I needed help,
so I underwent Anger Management classes.
Thereafter I joined a few real life groups
for female victims, and at times felt like I was surrounded by abusers
more than victims. I understand the anger, the frustration, I can
relate to the need to vent, etc. but, for example, one woman made a
comment to the effect of, "So, I told the son-of-a-b**** that he was a
f****** b****** and that stopped him from saying his s*** to me for a
while!" And many of the other women chimed in, "Yeah, you go girl!" I
had to leave that group because when I closed my eyes this woman
sounded just like my ex.
To hear my ex tell his side of the story -
he was the victim, the mistreated one, the innocent more or less.
Initially I was astonished and disgusted by the stance he took. But the
more I reflected on it, he WAS abused at times, too! I acted out, but
because I was reacting to his words/behavior over a long duration of
time, I did not view my own as being abusive. I convinced myself that I
was merely standing up for or asserting myself.
The line between victim and abuser can be
blurry at times, since some individuals can exhibit both as you
expressed. Since I have been scratching my head over this one for so
long, it was tremendously beneficial when I read your statement: "So,
who is the victim and who is the abuser? Seems to me that the
individual who takes responsibility for his or her life and thinks
"smart" - is neither!" What an empowering way to view it!
To me that is a much more insightful way to
address the dilemma, since labels can be so subjective and even
trapping at times. I prefer not to refer to myself as a victim or as an
abuser, but as a human being who was the recipient of abusive behavior,
and retaliated with abusive behavior in kind at one point.
I think some tend to be overly consumed with
the phrase, "I am a victim, it is not my fault!" It's enlightening if
for years you have felt you deserved to be mistreated that you
discover, no, you did not deserve it! But there are those who when they
make the above statement what they are really saying is, "I may be
absolutely miserable but I don't have to do anything to change my life
because I am not the one with the problem." In which case to me it is
used as an excuse to avoid dealing with the real issues, it is a kind
of comfort zone that some prefer to stagnate in. Which is fine with me,
people need to go at their own pace. Now I feel validated! Thanks! Dr. Irene B1: Submit Hello,
I have a serious problem. I have been engaged for three years to a man
whose father left his entire family of 9 kids and had really no reason.
Now ..when we met I was disabled by fatigue and immune syndrome, and by
chemical exposure. P. knew this but we fell in love and my father, he
and I moved in together. He was extremely helpful, yet I WAS
INDEPENDENT - financially so forth. After a year he started drinking
more and more, and would not show up back at home, and he abandoned me
twice 50 miles from home because I would not drive with him angry and
drunk.
He never was really like this before and I have never been around
drinkers. I was firm about this and told him to leave after he abandon
me and mistreated me. Since then my dad allowed him back to our home.
My dad has Parkinson's. Patrick was sorry etc. But he would never take
me to dinner or really do anything special. Not even to the grocery
store. This was crazy and he would blame me and yell and call me dirty
names and start fights out of nowhere. I felt very vulnerable, plus
each cruelty made my condition worse. I really love him but not what he
did. I did not just need him but he just turned like a snake. I
confronted him and finally he would change.
Suddenly when I was given my ring and we were to go see his family, I
was to go for a full day at the hospital. They called him to pick me up
but he said he couldn't. I drove myself home and was so weak. He was
very sweet, and asked me what I would like at the store. I just said
honey whatever you see that is simple is fine. He said he would be
right back. We were suppose to go to Arizona to see his family and I
would meet them. I had helped his sister with advanced cancer and was
looking forward to seeing her. Well he never came home.
My doctor was shocked, because I was suppose to be watched etc. and he
knew it. Nothing had happened. What he did was leave and snuck off
leaving my dad's car and rented a car. Then I noticed all his clothes
and everything I had given him was completely gone. I feel I have had a
severe nervous breakdown. My father and I paged him 20 times, He had
plotted this all and went to Arizona without me. But as in the past,
his family supported his insanity of abandoning me and the criminal way
of leaving me. Even though I was not sick, that made so ill I was put
back in the hospital. I was so weak.
He never answered the pages but finally did call and basically said he
had to leave because I wouldn't have let him go. I was so mad and
enraged at his cruelty and ungraciousness and the situation. I yelled
at him saying how he could do this to the woman he loved? He didn't
really answer - just acted like it was no big deal and I had a problem.
I said he would be accountable, and he hung up. I have not heard from
him, but my doctor feels that his behavior is extremely criminal and
abusive. It has caused me to completely relapse... it is now 4 days. I
don't page him; his family could care less, and where he works he has
debased me and they are protecting him.. could you please help me I
have no where to turn, and feel so scared, undone by him. He is his
Fathers son..... B1: Submit Hello Dr Irene, its me Suz :) :)
Here is an update on how things are going.
he has gotten much better at respecting my boundaries. at first we had
several blow ups about me refusing to have sex with him.
But there was too much in our past that I am not over and my loss of
love for him, all just makes it too painful for me emotionally to be
intimate.
So I have been enforcing my boundaries there. I survived the tantrums
and blow ups, and I even spent a few nights on the
couch since he claimed it was torture to sleep in the same room with me
and be
unable to have me! see I told you he was the King of Mellow Drama! Hardly "Mellow!" But, good for you!
Anyhow, once he finally calmed down, he decided to talk calmly with me about it and my feelings.
At that time I explained my feelings. He asked what I hoped to accomplish by doing this, and I explained.
Since then he hasn't stopped expressing an interest in wanting me very badly, and still tries to paw on me
- but, he doesn't get irate and pout when I reject him, at least.
I am not sure I can fall in love with him again. I feel like we need to start over as friends and see what happens. I
don't know if its really acceptable to expect him to go with out sex being its supposed
to be part of marriage. My opinion: sex is an act of love,
not an obligation. If you do not want to have sex with him, he must deal with
that. He can decide to stay in the marriage - or he may leave. His call.
It gets really confusing trying to set your
boundaries with an abuser, and trying to work on a relationship. I mean
I understand setting boundaries are a huge part of working on a
relationship. This is the most difficult place to be I think: trying to
work through an abusive marriage. Yes. Trying to make a dysfunctional relationship change to a healthy system.
Between taking your power back and learning to be assertive, setting your boundaries, and
taking care of yourself - while trying to work a relationship. Man, its like trying to learn to walk a tight rope.
Being traditional marriage counseling doesn't work in an abusive situation, ugh!
He quotes a lot of the things from our marriage counseling sessions, all the compromises, etc.
Its tough to balance. Very, very tough. But, you are
learning new skills you can take with you everywhere you go for the rest of your
life. Eventually, practice makes perfect and it gets easier to set boundaries,
etc. About his quoting from counseling sessions: Did he follow through
with his compromises? Did you agree to things you did not want to agree
to? Maybe its time to rethink the compromises you both made. Maybe its
time for a new round of counseling. And maybe, just maybe, you really, really no
longer want the marriage, but aren't ready to leave either... If you feel this
way, try individual counseling to help you get a handle on where you are. Good
luck Suz.
Suz
B1: Submit Thank you so much Dr Irene :)
yes I am getting the hang of my new skills that I plan to use in every part of my life!
you were right on about the marriage
counseling. no he hasnt followed through.
and I did agree to things I didnt want to I felt coersed wasnt able to
stand up for myself very well and was part of my own enemy.
anyhow here is another update!
not as good as the last but I didnt back down. He is already back to
being a big jerk!
When I got out of the shower he grabbed and took my towel and was
hugging me and started pawing on me and started foreplay. I said to
stop and he wouldnt kept going just telling come easy relax... I said
no! he got all mad. then said it was only a couple seconds. I said its
the point you didnt stop you didnt care what my feelings were or listen
to me. he kept trying to act like I was upset with him for nothing and
trying to get me to recongnize it was all me. I went and got dressed in
my daughters room. then went to dry my hair. he came in all mad at me
saying "when do you have to start being a good wife and mother. when do
you stop having this down for Suzanne only attitude. when do you have
to start looking at yourself and stop blaming everyone else for you
being so messed up. You need to look at yourself and say hey maybe I am
the reason I am so F****d up. so what am I suposed to live my life
never being able to touch you. oh I but you I know you can find someone
else to take care of you is that whats going on you have somebody else
huh. I dont even want to be around you. do me a favor leave and dont
ever come back, leave just you leave and never come back" I said okay!
he said "JUST YOU".
I was walking away from him and he was
following me. I just kept ignoring him other then to say okay to
leaving and never coming back.
yes I have decided I no longer want this
marriage and am tired of trying to work through it. its given me good
practice though. it reminds me of when my father was teaching me to
drive a stick shift. he took me to an area that was all hills with lots
of stop signs. it was very dificult but he said if you can do it here
you will be able to handle it anywhere.
Suz
B1: Submit Wow.
this is somthing inwich I have struggled with over & over again in
severl past realationships. Most of the time, I felt as if when ever it
came to me acting out in any manner like in this case it was
justifiiable. But now only to realize in some if not most cases I only
was wrong. Instill now has cause me to possibly loose that someone
special. This person comes into my life a strong, hardworking, good
father & provider. The things I have always looked for. So what
upper with that? Now after typing this will only have nothing but time
with out him mind you. To regret, kick or even feel what a thing I have
pushed out of my life..... will only see what time can tell or will
bring with this realitionshi[p. At this point if anything is left to
this realitionship....
signed dumb @ss...
B1: Submit I
understand that I sometimes have problems with my wifes bounderies. On
the other hand I believe that it is her way of controlling the
situation because I am not doing what she wants. She has said many a
time,"The wife always gets what she wants." I have done much soul
searching and feel bad for some of the things I have said. I have
sustained much abuse and do not want to continue the rebutle with my
wife. She has done this all her life(47), I am only 31. B1: Submit Thank
you for clearing that up for me. I am divorced from a verbally abusive
man and keep rethinking all the mean things I did when we were married.
He has happily gone on to another relationship and I am stuck in the
remains of our marriage still believing I am not fit company for
anyone. I am getting help from a professional and from friends, but it
is so very hard to stop seeing myself through his eyes. I enjoyed this
article because it made me feel that I am justified in my pain and soul
searching. B1: Submit I do not think wemon should be abused because we do not do any thing so why do men do it should be stopped B1: Submit I do not think wemon should be abused
because we do not do any thing so why do
men do it should be stopped and if the
man does not stop he should be put in
jail and some one should do the same
thing to him just to see how it feels and
the wemon should not have to put up with it
so they have a right to kill in self defense
and she should not get in trouble for it if
the man is abusing her and if you are in a
abusive relationship you should get out of
it while you can because you
may end up in the hospital or even worse
and I do not think you should not have to
put up with a man betting you or his verbel
abuse so if you are in a abuivse relationship
you should get out of it. it you have children
you defently get out out of the relationship
you do not wont the children to go through
the abusive relationship. B1: Submit I do not think wemon should be abused
because we do not do any thing so why do
men do it should be stopped and if the
man does not stop he should be put in
jail and some one should do the same
thing to him just to see how it feels and
the wemon should not have to put up with it
so they have a right to kill in self defense
and she should not get in trouble for it if
the man is abusing her and if you are in a
abusive relationship you should get out of
it while you can because you
may end up in the hospital or even worse
and I do not think you should not have to
put up with a man betting you or his verbel
abuse so if you are in a abuivse relationship
you should get out of it. it you have children
you defently get out out of the relationship
you do not wont the children to go through
the abusive relationship. B1: Submit I
too wondered what I was - abuser/victim. Two years ago, I was four
years into a marriage with a very angry husband which left me depressed
and anxiety ridden. I became hostile, violent, and very angry
myself...perhaps I was angry all along.....??? I myself have provoked,
stone-walled, manipulated and critisized my partner/victim/abuser in
response to the flaws I perceived in him, and the wrongs I felt he
subjected me too. As each others emotional punching bags it became a
game of who's been victimized the most. What a waste of time that game
is! I realize now it's both of us..he'd been trying to tell me that all
along, but I always felt so self righteous that I couldn't see myself
as being as imperfect as he was. His problem is controlling his temper,
my problem is overreacting to his temper. That's just the tip of that
iceberg, but until recently, I never really accepted my abusive
behavior. So what if he does things I don't like. Nobody deserves to be
torn down because they do something you don't like. Tell them once,
tell them twice, then either accept it, move on, or get out. I'm not
sure yet what I need to do yet. I do know that my behavior is
unacceptable, and plan on working on that first. What is very clear is
our abusive/victim roles have been interchangable all along in this
marriage. I refuse to play either role anymore, and I know just in
doing that it will have a profound effect on how we relate to each
other. B1: Submit Yeah! B1: Submit After
reading all of these posts, my head's spinning...For 5 years I've been
in a very verbally abusive relationship, he has attacked me in private
and public so often that I always assumed I was a victim. lately I've
been reading a lot (a LOT) including The Verbally Abusive Relationship,
and I'm realizing that we live in two seperate worlds, really. When I
am crying, he calls it abuse. I gave a child up for adoption in 1992
and every year around that time I get very depressed; I've told him it
has nothing to do with him, he doesn't need to worry about it beyond
just letting me cry and get through it, but he becomes angry, really
angry, and says I'm abusing him. He has definitelt interfered more than
aided my recovery with this sadness...
I tried for so long to make him understand that I waaasn't trying to
hurt hiim or "make him feel guilty" when I was crying. After reading so
much I came to realize that he didn't care whether I was hurting or
not. My problems were irrelevant. Any emotions I had were revolved
around him (in his eyes, I mean...They really weren't) and therefore I
was crying at night simply to keep him up late, or biother him while he
was tired. I have found supportive friends outside the relationship
(and luckily he's so distant, I'm able to spend plenty of time among
them when I need to) and have stopped relying on him (most of the
time...I slip and let myself get emotionally out of control sometimes,
but it's more rare now).
I think this relates kind of to what's being said here, because for so
long I was feeling guilty for abusing HIM with my tears...tears for
stuff that happened in my past and for the way he was traeting me. I
couldn't believe that he would hurt me and not try to assuage it,
that's all I ever had in relationship before. It was alien to me. Now I
know that he feels immense guilt- and it hurts HIM every time he's mean
to me. I tell him I don't like the way he's speaking to me and leave
the room when he starts to yell or get nasty (he will say cruel things
at the top of his lungs until I remove myself) where I used to cry, or
yell back, or call him names back, or just basically try to throw it
all back to him...
I stopped acting out my anger at him so much because I realize that he
was the one carrying it around, not me. He can't give it to me unless I
take it. I won't carry any of it for him now, and he is becoming
quieter and more tolerant...of our differences. I'm just trying to deal
with my own problems now, and see what he does for himself. This
website is so helpful! ;) B1: Submit this
article was a "home hitter" for me. The same incident has happened in
m,y life and not knowing even what co-dependant was I lost alot of my
self to an abuser. The hardest thing i ever had to do was admit to
myself that I let these things happen to me.I had no clue that I had
choices with my own life and my own well being. I was married at a very
early age and I loved this man with all my heart. In the beginning he
was wonderful but that didn't last very long.But I always thought if I
just loved him enough he would change.It never happened.The sexual
abuse that I LET myself endure was a survival mechanism,if I just had
sex when ever he wanted i didn't get hurt,mentally,physically,or
emotionally.When I decided to set boundaries is when all Hell broke
lose here and the abuse got out of hand.But I realize that it's not my
problem but my boundaries.He got to drinking again knowing I was afraid
of him when he drank(and he hadn't drank for 20 years)thinking he could
regain control over my boundaries.When I didn't give them up he landed
in jail for domestic abuse and has been ordered into anger management
classes.We'll see if it helps him or not but i still have my boundaries
set and there they will stay reguardless. This post was what i needed
to read,sometimes i think i am abusive when i don't give up,i almost
get cold when he keeps coming at me with different tactics.Maybe I do
hold some back out of resentment but I feel worse when i give in.
Thanks for sharing,Pam Kerr B1: Submit B1: Submit Wow!
I've just decided that after 30 years of marriage and 20 years where
affection has been withheld that I have been abused. Now I read all of
this and wonder what I must have done to deserve this kind of
treatment.
B1: Submit I
realised a long time ago that my curretn relationship wasn't healthy.
However, I refused to accept just how unhealthy it is. Victim? I have
allowed my boundaries to be breached; I have allowed my self esteem to
be damaged.
I am taking responsibilty for my well-being (funny I have always been
responsible for my well-being)
Thank you Dr.Irene for this web-site with all the helpful articles.I
don't know if you are religious or not but since I am, "God moves in
mysterious ways". B1: Submit Throughout
all these articles I have been reading on this sight I repeatedly hear
to set your boundries and don't let your spouse or partner break them.
But how do you not let your spouse break your boundries?
How????????????? B1: Submit dr.
irene: thank you from the bottom of my heart. my husband cannot accept
"no", it is my "duty" to do everything he requests. it's "his way" or
no way. and most important, he keeps mental notes on past experiences
that i confided in him, when i thought he was so perfect, only to throw
them up in my face during a minor disagreement, TWENTY YEARS LATER!
never, never, lets me forget any mistakes. i used to fight back to
prove a point, but now i dont bother, because its a waste of time and
energy, knowing that HE has to take responsibility for his anger, which
stems from an abusive childhood, which to this day he will admit to but
uses as an excuse because he knows no other way. even when we went to
counseling, he told me the counselor thought i was crazy. i have set my
boundaries, and if he wants to leave {which he threatens all the time}
he can go and i'll help him pack. I WILL NOT BE TREATED LIKE DIRT ANY
LONGER, I AM A GOOD PERSON! thank you, genie B1: Submit Dear Dr Irene,
Thank you so much for this site! It has come
at a moment when I was completely in the dark. In fact, I"m still in
the dark but I'm trying now to look at the light at the end of the
tunnel. It's been there for long but I just couldn't look at it albeit
walk towards it.
My husband verbal abuse turned into physical
violence one night when I didn't "act right". It was such a shock that
my world crumbled down and I didn't know where to look for help. Thanks
God, I'd been reading enough,to know that THIS was a big problem and
that I had to do something about it. And I started searching. I felt so
terrible that it was out of question that I go to the Battered Women
Ass.; it would have been admitting publicly I had been battered and I
wasn't ready for that (still not am)! My only hope was the net where I
hope I could find some hints about what to do next; but even while I
was typing Battered Women in the search box, I felt horrified. Was it
really me, the well-informed, modern, intelligent etc.... who is having
a problem? It really seemed incredible! But the 'best' was yet to come!
While searching I came to your site.... I started reading and the
realization was so astounding that I got physically sick and had to
turn the comp off... I REALLY HAD A PROBLEM! I had been abused for
years and I was just realizing it.. It took me days to come to the site
again and since then I've been on and off. I've been through my problem
and know now I've been codependent since my childhood. I've not taken
any formal step yet but as things are going I guess it won't be long
but what I wanted to say is that it REALLY REALLY helped to have your
site. It made me aware of the mess I had been living in for years and
it has been showing the way towards recovery. I really grateful since
here in Mauritius we have not even heard about the codependency
problem. It will take me a lot to recover but I know I will....and your
site and all your advice would have been the start of it all.
Thank you
Marjorie B1: Submit I am appreciative of this website--it is helping me in my own life-- B1: Submit I
am so glad I found this web site. It took every thing I had to make my
husband leave my home. Four weeks later I wanted him to come home
because I love him. Well I understand now that I was afraid to live
with myself. The hardest thing I had to do was tell my wrongs in this
marriage and to see the anger I had at myself for letting it happen. I
read some more of the things in here and have decided to say by myself
and work on me. What ever he dose with his life is his buisness and not
mine. My kids and are grateful for this web page. I say my kids because
they was in the middle of this and are not now.
Thank you Understanding more every day. B1: Submit I
am so glad I found this web site. It took every thing I had to make my
husband leave my home. Four weeks later I wanted him to come home
because I love him. Well I understand now that I was afraid to live
with myself. The hardest thing I had to do was tell my wrongs in this
marriage and to see the anger I had at myself for letting it happen. I
read some more of the things in here and have decided to say by myself
and work on me. What ever he dose with his life is his buisness and not
mine. My kids and I are grateful for this web page. I say my kids
because they was in the middle of this and are not now.
Thank you Understanding more every day. B1: Submit I
must say after years of repeatedly being the victim. I have to admit
that I have acted out in many traits of the abuser. I have gotten so
bad at doing this that I sound and act just like him. I find it very
difficult to stop myself from treating him the way he has treated me. I
dont want to sound as if I am excusing my bad behaviors, but I cannot
tell you otherwise. I may very well be wrong, but I am thinking that I
have adapted to this level of treatment and its the only way I know.
And for my self esteem to survive, since I was so depressed at one
point I contemplated suicide, (momentarily). I began to reverse the
situations slowly as his mannerisms and speech began to become my way
of communicating with him. Now it is he who says I am not treating him
the way I used to w/love and respect. I feel as if I do give him what
he asks of me, but at the same time he still acts out because he is the
original abuser. He is the one with the primary abuser way of thinking.
He still manipulates and lies to blame me or fault me for whatever
situation occurs. I now respond to his lies with angry outbursts and I
cuss like a sailor. Something that I have never done, but have now
adapted to his foul mouth. He now tells me he hates the way that I talk
and cannot stand it when I use profanity when talking to him. I have
curbed my foul language considerably since he has stated this many,
many times. But he now will go into a verbatim of what I said to him,
for instance, an argument this morning. He will ad lib more profanity
into what I said earlier. When, in fact I had not said those things. He
still blames me for everything. I told him recently that I could not
take this living situation and that it must end. I must leave this
relationship for my sanity. He responded by telling me that it is my
own fault that he reacts to me the way that he does. Now he tells me he
is sorry. And later he will tell me that he was just kissing up to me
because he is the only one who is trying to sacrafice for this
relationship and he is tired of doing it. He says he only wants some
affection and respect and that I dont treat him like a man should be
treated. I will later be wrong for telling him that we were talking
about the way that I was being treated. I will be wrong because it will
be selfish for me to say only think of myself in this relationship. I
bring these things up to get it out to solve them. Not to
re-fight/argue about them. He will take it as a derrogatory comment
about himself and the cycle will continue on. We are not able to have a
decent conversation telling each other what we want or expect and what
the other can do to make it better. Even if it means we have to say to
one another that we dont like something about them. Critism is taken as
a put down between each other or a complaint. Even if I learn the best
way to phrase it, or even if I were to forewarn him and fore-apologize
to tell him, please dont take this the wrong way, I am not trying to
hurt you. I dont mean anything negative. I want to help us, ...
He will disregard what I say, and take it negatively anyway, get mad at
me and throw the book at me. All in all, I have learned to not be so
sensitive to his verbal abuse and give it to him in the way that he has
given it to me. Of course, now I wish that I wouldve done something
different. But I loved him so much that I wanted to adapt. So making
myself strong enough and not being so sensitive to his words, made me
tough enough to dish them right back at him. Its wrong. I dont know if
I am doing the right thing to change it. Phew!...there are my thoughts
and comments on that. Thanks. B1: Submit I
wish to remain anonymous, but I am wondering if a man tells you after
eight years of marriage that if you do that again (while he is angry)
that he is going to beat you black and blue, throw you into the yard,
and call the cops." He has never hit me, only threatened to four years
ago during an argument. I heard from his grown daughter that he slapped
his ex-wife's teen daughter one time, but not the wife. And that she
called the police and he never did it a second time. He is a little
moody, but good most of the time that is why that remark really shocked
me! Could he be an abuser? B1: Submit B1: Submit I
was living with my partner for a year and a half before we started
arguing over little things but I recognized these things as boundary
issues. Like, getting angry over me waxing my eyebrows and not asking
him permission first. Needless to say I didn't have the 'typical'
reaction to this type of control and instead resisted. I knew that
something about his demands were very wrong.
As time went by the waters got very muddy. I
know now, throgh some of my own group therapy, that a great part of our
relationship was 'crazymaking'. My partner was the type of person who
never got angry. The proverbial 'nice guy'...who would never have hurt
me. But when he did get angry (which was rare) it was over seemingly
silly things which were always my fault. He was always justified in his
anger by telling me that there was something wrong with me and if I
would just behave as he wanted he wouldn't get this way.
In a few short months my self esteem was
greatly suffering, I was beginning to engage in my own abusive
behavior, sometimes throwing something at the wall out of pure
frustration with the relationship. He would not come to counseling with
me, he would laugh at me and tell me I was being stupid and ridiculous
when I expressed my unhappiness and concern in our relationship and he
expressed to his family and friends that we were having problems
because of my violent behavior and nothing more.
The relationship progressed to the point where I asked him to leave and the first physical abuse happened at that time.
We spent months apart...he was ordered into counseling and I (although already in counseling) joined a group for myself.
We are now back together and while many
things are greatly improved...I still have anger toward him. We
continue to work on these issues.
My question is this. I began to feel as
though I were the abuser and according to him I was. Had I not gotten
agry at him the day I asked him to leave he would have never hit me.
I admit to my own behavior. I know I
sometimes threw things and yelled at him but there is a big part of me
that felt hugely provoked by him. Is this ever a fact? I have been in
previous relationships and suffered other hurts and have never resorted
to this type of behavior before. I feel somehow that I was backed into
a corner and when I retaliated..I was labled the abuser. I undersand
that we all need to take a certian amount of responsibility for what is
our 'stuff'. But to this day his Family still believes (through their
conversations with him) that I was the abuser, he did nothing wrong and
then I had the nerve to charge him with assault.
So what about the crazymaking and how do you
ensure that you 'see it' if it ever starts to happen again and how do
you handle it so you don't end up reacting to it.
Sheri
B1: Submit I
can really relate to this. My husband, even when we were just living
together as boyfriend/girlfriend, is very verbally abusive. He refuses
to pick up after himself, or help with anything around the house,or
help with our toddler without alot of coercion and begging. Then he
calls me names when I ask for his help. Sometimes I ask nicely, with
hope. Other times I yell, and lose track of what it was I was even
frustrated about. Once he was so mad at me for an arguement over
responsibility that he ripped up twenty or so pictures of me with
childhood friends--a few being of my first love, and first best guy
friend, in three seperate occasions he manged to demolish an armoir
that was a Christmas present from my parents ten years ago, and every
door in our apartment has a fist hole in it from him. When I tell him I
feel abused by him when he says mean things to me and ruins my things,
he says he feels abused, too. Sometimes I get sooo mad at the way he is
talking to me, usually when I am working and he is sitting at the TV or
computer, that I throw something at him, or break a cup and say "See
how I feel now!!" and run off crying. Like the women above, I have
withheld sex from him, too, but not for revenge. Sometimes I feel so
abused I just can't give my self to him like that. It would be almost
like rape. If I cook him dinner he always finds something wrong with
it. He tells me I don't know how to clean. And even though I work 15-20
hours a week, go to school full time, am the main caretaker of our son,
and the maid and financial planner of our household (he refuses to fill
out even his own loan, school papers!!), he says I don't do enough
because he works full time and takes 2 classes. So since what I do
doesn't generate as much money, he shouldn't have to help me. He also
discourages me and berates me so badly that I don't get things for
myself that I need, like winter clothes. Then he spends a couple
hundred on himself, for electronics and such. So I yell alot and am
angry almost all of the time, but I still want to make it work (even
though I hold the secret that he isn't going to change, I haven't told
myself yet.) I feel that I have become an abuser, too. Maybe I am crazy. B1: Submit I'm
to the point where I am so very, very angry that I, too, am behaving
abusively...I felt you were discribing me when you said that the victim
can become an abuser..I refuse to put up with the abuse any further and
it only seems to give him he justification to continue to behave badly. B1: Submit THIS
SELECTION HAS HELP ME REALIZE THAT I AM IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP.
THANK YOU, NOW I KNOW THAT IT IS NOT ALL MY FAULT. THIS HAS INSPIRED ME
TO TRY A NEW APPROACH TO MY PARTNER AND HIS BEHAVIOR. HE WOULD GET SO
ANGRY AT ME BECUASE I WAS UPSET AND DIDN'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT. HE WOULD
IGNORE ME AND GRAB ME AND SAY VERY HURTFUL THINGS, TO MAKE ME FEEL
INFERIOR TO HIM. HE WOULD SCARE ME SO BAD, THAT I WOULD JUST GIVE IN
AND AGREE WITH HIM. HE CALLED ME WORTHLESS, SELFISH, AN IDIOT, ETC....
FINALLY I STARTED TO THINK HE WAS RIGHT. THANK YOU, NOW I HAVE SEEN
THIS RELATIONSHIP IN A DIFFERENT PROSPECTIVE. B1: Submit I see in many of the articles that it references the abuser as "him" in some instances it may say "your partner"
There seems to be little information when the abuser is the wife.
Im wondering if there are many men out there who have wifes who have material expectations
that cannot be fullfiled because of financial limits affects their relationship.
All too often Im compared to other marital couples where "he" is able to fullfil these
material expectations and end up getting grilled why I can't
Just curious who else is in this boat
An abused husband B1: Submit I've
heard this scenario stated in another way; compared with a "retreat
into your castle - complete with drawbridge". When you see your abuser
approaching, you simply seek refuge in your castle, pull up the draw
bridge, and refuse to engage in battle. All this sounds great, except
when the abuser is coming with alms in hand. Pity the safety and
remoteness of the castle mote to have blocked possible restoration! The
"boundaries" this woman sets up must be such as to allow for peaceful
communication, or else the distance placed may endure by default. What
is truly at stake here is the opportunity of reconciliation, a moment
that should be treated with great care. To the abuser with alms in hand
approaching, this boundary establishment may be viewed more as an
unwillingness on part of the other, an unwillingness to reconcile
differences more so than anything else. Naturally, this
misinterpretation will lead to accusations of adultery and
unfaithfulness. I can only imagine how many couples, if properly
instructed in the use of good communication, would have reverted to a
neutral ground before first choosing retreat behind impenetrable
boundaries. I guess the real question is whether the enemy/abuser is
approaching for battle or for peace. Certainly, in this vulnerable
situation, the approaching party must be handled with extreme care.
Naturally, should his/her actions be misconstrued, volatility must be
addressed. The clear thinking respondent will be able to nurture this
moment into a genuine display of love. In this case, the respondent
assumes more the role of a trained proffesional than anything else. For
obvious reasons, before anyone attempts to seek shelter behind
boundaries, the rules of engagement must be accurately presented to the
other party, in order to avoid confusion. That way, when the other
party approaches, they may be aware of the fact that the next step will
be received as trespassing; a violation of those rules. I give you
these comments per your request. Hope they are beneficial! B1: Submit How did you get so smart about all this stuff, I have lived with this for 32 years
and I could have never summed it all up so
well.
Thanks for this...you have started my journey for peace.
Judy B1: Submit
Comments, yes...
I have read many examples on this site where an abusive man thinks he's being
abused because his wife/girlfriend doesn't want to have sex. I can see the point
about being able to take no for an answer; it's pretty obvious that when
someone is "not in the mood" that you must accept it. And I am fully capable of that.
So, here's a twist, hopefully to open up readers to the idea that abuse can also
come from witholding sex, even if it's still the man who is asking for it.
My abusive ex-girlfriend loved to play this game with me. Let me preface by saying
that in the happy stages of our relationship, we had a healthy, normal, active
physical relationship. As good as you could ask for. After she became convinced
I was won over and slowly became abusive, sex became a very obvious control
issue.
We had sex on average about 4-7 times a week. Suddenly, her "feelings changed"
and she didn't want to have sex anymore. OK, I can deal with it. What's wrong?,
I asked. "I don't know, it's more important to just be together right now." OK, I can
do that for you. She assured me this was just a phase, and soon things would return to normal.
In short, if she doesn't want to have sex, even if I think that stinks, I was fully
prepared to be a companion, be patient and understanding. If she said no, I didn't
ask again. I think in a period of three months, I asked if we could have sex a total
of maybe four or five times. I approached gently, slowly. I did not beg, coerce,
only asking why a few times, and stating I wasn't trying to dehumanize her, only
wanted what was normal for us before: a loving physical connection.
She knew I wanted to resume our physical relationship. So, while she was telling
me she just preferred snuggling and companionship from me "at this time" (totally fine; I can do that
for someone), she was also doing these things:
Acting extremely seductive, yet refusing to be sexually engaged.
Grabbing my private parts, then when I responded, pushing me away physically.
Touching me in a very sexual manner, while saying "Just because I can."
Calling me and being flirtatious, promising me sex later that night. When the time
came, she'd refuse and say "You get nothing." I'd be angry and tell her that was
unfair when I was trying to be sensitive to her needs. She'd respond by becoming angry
with me and saying "It all comes down to sex, doesn't it??!!??"
Openly fantasizing about other men in front of me.
Acting seductive, then pushing me away and asking why I don't rape her or "show
her who's the boss". This was a double-bind. If I did nothing, I'm a wimp; not "manly" enough to
be her lover and "take charge".
If I dared to respond to that (and I never did, I'm not a rapist), she'd surely hold it against me.
Telling me she has sexual dreams, complete with orgasm.
Talking explicitly about sex with other men while we were out together.
Physically pulling me in; inviting me to touch her, than saying I was "sexually harrassing"
her.
A few times, she'd tell me it was OK, we could have sex. She'd initiate, and I'd happily oblige. Afterwards,
she'd say I was lucky she didn't call the police and tell them I raped her.
In short, if a partner doesn't want sex, I can deal. What I can't deal with is
sexual teasing, seduction/rejection, and insulting comments while I'm supposed
to be all patient and understanding about her needs. It was pure torture. It was,
in my opinion, totally abusive. Making sure of what I wanted, than making sure it
was exactly what I did not get.
A.B.
B1: Submit Yes.
Sometimes I have also wondered if I have also served as a the abuser as
well..However, when I think of the things that I did..like saying
no..when he wanted to travel and I was sick..getting angry when he left
me after a dinner party in which he felt he was "ignored"..
When I started placing limits in my
relationship..then the problems really started..the attacks..the
rage..the tantrums..the blame..the bullying act..the intimidation..you
know..after you hear all this for a while you begin to doubt
yourself..thank god for therapy..other support groups and good friends
and family..
thanks.
slb B1: Submit My
husband tries to tell me that same thing that I dont love him because I
dont want to have sex with him. He tries to tell me that he deserves it
if we are not going to have sex then way are we married. He startes
fights over it and tells me he is going to leave me over it. I have had
it with him just so I would not have to but up with the way he acts if
he gets mad over it. And he has also said some pretty rude things to me
about it. And all of this has just made me resent him and not want to
have sex with him even more!! B1: Submit B1: Submit I could not have described it better! B1: Submit I
am wondering if I am turning into an abuser. My husband is constantly
telling me that he thinks I am hiding things or I am lying to him. He
is very insecure with me being around any other man at all. This is
very intolerable since I work in an office made up of at least half
men. He is extremely jealous and is constantly accusing me of dressing
up for other men or says I must be fooling around because I am not as
interested in sex as I use to be. The biggest reason I am not
interested in sex is because I feel that if he thinks I could be this
cheating type of person, I don't have an interest of sleeping with him.
I feel that in order for me to enjoy and be interested in sex my
husband has to trust and respect me. However, I do feel that I may not
have enough patience in his insecurities. I just seem to get aggravated
as soon as he expresses his fears. I can't seem to even try to be
sympathetic any more. I just get angry and yell. Does this mean I am
becoming an abuser? B1: Submit I
just got out of a 31 year marriage (1st 25 yrs, verbal abuse, some
physical--none in past 10 years). It took all my courage, etc. to do
this. The one book I wish I could have every human on the planet
read,,,,is: VERBAL ABUSE by Patricia Evans......It took me 25 years to
find out what was happening to me by finding this book; I consider it
my 2nd Bible..........I have a real problem with the word
"co-dependent" I think that is blaming the victim mentality! To me,
co-dependency is helping someone to do something......no one is capable
of STOPPING an abuser---the only way yu can make it stop is to leave
them----most women are not able to do this---we spend years trying to
understand, figure things out, go to counseling, hoping, praying and
doing everything humanly possible to "fix" it! So, to call the
recipients of verbal or physical abuse---codependents flys in the face
of reality, and punishes the person already being punished! I consider
myself an expert in verbal abuse, I grew up that way, "married" my
mother, and tried to fix the past............now I help women
everywhere I can; I put together a paper (well, about 50 pages) and
give it to women all the time..I consider it my responsibility, since I
feel like I just found the cure for a horrible disease (and it is) that
no one knows about! My e-mail is: wacalice@aol.com if anyone wants to
respond. Thanks! Sincerely, Alice B1: Submit This
makes sense, because I wondered if it was really just him or was it the
combination of both of us? I feel he is the abuser most of the time.
But I have the tendency to be the same way. He can just be so much
better at it. It's like he beat me at my own game, and now I recognize
this crazy behavior and I don't want to put up with it. I want to
change. But I have to quit falling for his provoking ways. I just think
I am finally starting to grow up at the age of 27. B1: Submit Wow
that stuff is pretty confusing but makes sense. My now, ex-boyfriend
was an emotional abuser. I saw myself turning hateful and saying
abusive things back. Mainly, trying to defend myself. He once told me
that his ex-girlfriend mother to his 4 year old daughter, tried to
control him. I wonder if her behavior rubbed off on him. Im sure some
of that is true, but he also had a unstable upbringing. His dad
controlled his mother. Its so sad that two people who are unhealthy
have children. Unfortunatley the children pay and the cycle continues. B1: Submit B1: Submit I
totally agree with this. I have been there and am still in the
relationship. I have often agonized over whether I was the abuser as he
said I was. But it is clear to me through this well written article
that I fought back over boundaries that he continually crossed and the
15 years of pent up anger. This website is helping me to understand how
to take responsibility for my own victimization. It is such a relief to
know that I can do something about this instead of just helplessly wait
for him to finally see and change. Thank You Dr. Irene. B1: Submit I believe i am in an abusive relationship. I think I am the victim but could turn into the abuser at times. B1: Submit This
posting is from a man. I find what you have written very informative
and helpful. Perhaps over time I can fix my stuff. One thing, however,
is very distressing to this man who is trying very hard to deal with
his stuff. Almost all of the villians in your stories are men. I
realize that there are certain consistancies in each of the sexes that
would promote particular roles, but as a man trying to "get it right"
your rhetoric was a little hard to get past. Perhaps a more sensitive
pen would be helpful to us that are trying.
Sincerely,
K B1: Submit I
was in a similar relationshio that left me coomplete emotionally messed
up. I always felt that she had no interests in my interests and I felt
compelled to constantly be excited about hers and I did enjoy her
taking joy in things she loved but while she originally showed her
artwork mine and stuff I appreciated she became rapidly uninterested
(she never went through my work which I am pretty proud of) but still
wanted me to get excured about all of her sketches, I bought her a pack
od high quality pencil caryons and a fancy sketch book so we would have
a common ground. If I missed a minor hair change I was told how
insensitive I was and women immediately notice that type of thing. She
threatened suicide or self abuse in order to get me to do stuff. I have
done a fair amount of psychadellic chemicals in my life and smoked a
fair bit of pot while the breadth of my psych chemical experiments was
wide the frequency was rare. I gained so much insite from many of those
trips I cant explain the chaning power they had on me. She refused to
talk about these which I could not understand I also had been working
60+ hr weeks travelling 50% of the time before I met her and had
started using harder stuff the stupidest mobe I made but quit when she
came into my life. my drug use was used against me through the whole
relationship and even now that we aren;t going out she still attacks me
for it, After we broke up I was ready for suicide but the method I
chose a lonhg time ago if life became unbearable was heroin I had done
it befor actually once after I first met her but before I really felt
we were going out We had either fooled around or actually had sex I
believe the latter (I am in my late 20'w and had had sex with a total
of 5 girls with one long relationship.Anyway I got so loaded on New
Years I probably should have died I did some really stupid shit while
most of the way out of my mind I had oral sex with a male friend of 10
years in front of his GF )both were and remained close friends until my
new partner showed up and understandably hated them. Now she claimes I
said he raped me I am very confident I would never say this what I may
have said is that if either of us were female the male probably would
be considered a date rapist as both of us were unbelievably impaired. I
had not expected her to be that mad otherwise though I tend to be open
about most things would have kept it silent as far as I was concerned
it was between me my friend and his gf who was probably the better of
my friends. she proceded to hold this over me in every disagreement we
ever had. Now I could have been more honest with her at times but she
created a climate where I was scared to speak lest I end up being
yelled at. I dont believe fights are the right way for people who
supposedly love each other to solve problems and I am good at avoiding
them but it can be heartbreaking and frustrating. I'm glad shes out of
my life but now publicly attacking me and my new GF who has treated me
so much better than she ever did.
One reccomendation if it feels really wrong for some reson it will
probably be a horror B1: Submit I
am in absolute turmoil. I have been married for 28 years, since I was
18. Our relationship was in turmoil from the beginning. There has been
violence (his) and infidelity (mine), yet we are still together. We
have 3 children, 19, 17 and 12. I am disturbed by my husband's verbal
and emotional abuse toward me and my children, and am ashamed that I
have not been able to stop it. We've gone through a lot of therapy over
the years, and one of the therapists told me that I enable my husband's
deplorable behaviour by staying with him and not rendering any
consequences. I thought a lot about that. So what I did last January
was move into my own room. I told him that he could (a) accept it (b)
change it by (i) leaving; or (ii) altering his behaviour and sustaining
it. I seem to be unable to pack up and leave for a variety of reasons.
I hate conflict and don't react well to stress. He won't leave and says
he will make it very ugly and costly for me to leave. I know I
shouldn't be intimated by that, I just don't have the will and the
energy to fight.
He says I am being abusive, mental, manic depressive. I feel that I
must preserve what I have left of my own dignity and I must show my
daughters that I am not just standing by letting him trample all over
us.
He is not a monster, it's just that his behaviour is deplorable.
Any comments and/or adivce would be greatly appreciated. B1: Submit I
would love to have more info on this subject, you have covered many
areas, but I am writting to request maybe a comic strip of pictures
showing people acting on verbal abuse, these type of things are great
for projects. I have used your info for my project on verbal abuse and
would love to hear from you, cass_love24@hotmail.com B1: Submit What
does the verbally abused person do when their self esteem is so low
they lack the energy to find help?To ashamed to admit how far they let
the person go while still holding on trying to please.We are sometimes
so depleated we lack the emotional energy to act.I and my friend are in
this same place.We are trying to help each other but continiously run
out of steam.Our support systems have been gone for a long time.We are
isolated.In my case only his vicodin addicted friends come here.
we need someone to talk to besides one another.
Is there any other options besides NA
Linda in new orleans
lscott916@aol.com B1: Submit I
have known this for many months-recognized it all- out of a 15 year
abusive-both ways -marriage- how i stopped "it"
treat it like the alcohol-totally abstain from him and all others as
far as relationships with men and get help-accept contructive criticism
from qualified people aware of abuse issues and pray a lot B1: Submit B1: Submit B1: Submit I
have been codependent for a long time, and am busy trying to grow away
from these patterns. Much of what you have said, I already knew, but it
really helps me to keep from falling back into a relationship without
reviving the psychological abuse (very subtle and pervasively
effective!) and learning to live comfortably within boundaries I let
fall in order to "make things better", in order to 'stay happy' or
become "more intimate". Now that I have stepped away from fearful
living, it is easier to see 'where I have been' and where I must not
return. You are helping! B1: Submit My
husband cut me off from sex 6 years ago. One day we were doing it and
the next we were not. If I ask for it, he brings up every excuse he can
for it to be my fault. We are married 32 years and I am lonely. He
never touches me or kisses me or has any personal contact with me. We
do not fight, we are just soooooo platonic. Is this mental cruelty. B1: Submit Where did you get the title Doctor, from a ceral box? You couldn't read a bill
board let alone between the lines. The only abuse claimed here was him saying it
was abusive not to have sex. The part about a marriage counselor pointing out
emotional black mail is clearly "I'm ok, you are not." What was pointed out
about her during these sessions? Boundaries don't exist in a marriage. If you
think they do then you must also beleive they are part of a parent child relationship.
So according to you it would be "savy" for a child to refuse to say who they
were with as their privacy is a boundry. Familes set limits based on
mutual consent and circumstantces. It is intuitively obvious, even to the casual
observer, that this "savy lady" makes it a regular practice to deny her husband
sex. Or maybe he is so metally and physically abusive to her she can't stand to
be touched by him. Or maybe it is something else altogether. Kind of like
her side, his side and the truth. Point being for you to use words like "amen" is
self promoting. You are trying to play to a target market. So remove the Doctor
since they are objective.
B1: Submit Where did you get the title Doctor, from a ceral box? You couldn't read a bill
board let alone between the lines. The only abuse claimed here was him saying it
was abusive not to have sex. The part about a marriage counselor pointing out
emotional black mail is clearly "I'm ok, you are not." What was pointed out
about her during these sessions? Boundaries don't exist in a marriage. If you
think they do then you must also beleive they are part of a parent child relationship.
So according to you it would be "savy" for a child to refuse to say who they
were with as their privacy is a boundry. Familes set limits based on
mutual consent and circumstantces. It is intuitively obvious, even to the casual
observer, that this "savy lady" makes it a regular practice to deny her husband
sex. Or maybe he is so metally and physically abusive to her she can't stand to
be touched by him. Or maybe it is something else altogether. Kind of like
her side, his side and the truth. Point being for you to use words like "amen" is
self promoting. You are trying to play to a target market. So remove the Doctor
since they are objective.
B1: Submit Where did you get the title Doctor, from a ceral box? You couldn't read a bill
board let alone between the lines. The only abuse claimed here was him saying it
was abusive not to have sex. The part about a marriage counselor pointing out
emotional black mail is clearly "I'm ok, you are not." What was pointed out
about her during these sessions? Boundaries don't exist in a marriage. If you
think they do then you must also beleive they are part of a parent child relationship.
So according to you it would be "savy" for a child to refuse to say who they
were with as their privacy is a boundry. Familes set limits based on
mutual consent and circumstantces. It is intuitively obvious, even to the casual
observer, that this "savy lady" makes it a regular practice to deny her husband
sex. Or maybe he is so metally and physically abusive to her she can't stand to
be touched by him. Or maybe it is something else altogether. Kind of like
her side, his side and the truth. Point being for you to use words like "amen" is
self promoting. You are trying to play to a target market. So remove the Doctor
since they are objective.
B1: Submit THIS
IS AN INCREDIABLE SITE. THAT STORY IS EXTACTLY LIKE MINE ONLY HE IS THE
ONE WITH-HOLDING SEX. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT IT
IS HIS RIGHT. HE TELLS ME ALL THE TIME THAT I AM THE ABUSER. NOW I AM
NOT SO SURE. I START BACK WITH THERAPY MONDAY. B1: Submit I
am the person whose husband denied her sex. Sex isn't the only thing
missing. There is no physical contact, no hand holding, no pats on the
back, no nothing. After 32 years of marriage, I expect some closeness.
It doesn't have to be sex, I just need some intimacy, even if it is
just a hug once a month. I don't ask because I don't want to receive
something grudgingly, but I need something more from this union. I see
him extend courtesy to other people, but when it comes to me, I'm
pretty much on my own. I honestly don't know if I want to grow older
with this man. I don't know if I could go through retirement following
his lead without any thanks. Even a workhorse gets a pat on the nose
every once in a while. B1: Submit I
am the person whose husband denied her sex. Sex isn't the only thing
missing. There is no physical contact, no hand holding, no pats on the
back, no nothing. After 32 years of marriage, I expect some closeness.
It doesn't have to be sex, I just need some intimacy, even if it is
just a hug once a month. I don't ask because I don't want to receive
something grudgingly, but I need something more from this union. I see
him extend courtesy to other people, but when it comes to me, I'm
pretty much on my own. I honestly don't know if I want to grow older
with this man. I don't know if I could go through retirement following
his lead without any thanks. Even a workhorse gets a pat on the nose
every once in a while. B1: Submit I've
noticed the same. Being a victim of an abuser you end up duplicating
the behavior to survive. Then you take it to work, use it on your
friends and finally figure out your are transfering it when you lose a
couple of jobs and friends. Since I've noticed this I've been working
hard to reel it in. Learning about conflict resolution and even telling
friends if I start to behave a certain way to let me know so I can
stop. B1: Submit God bless you this is called emotional intelligence!!! B1: Submit God bless you this is called emotional intelligence!!! B1: Submit I
am worn out from my relationship. It's so complex. I finally built up
enough anger over years of emotional abuse that I've now become
verbally abusive. So now I am both the victim and abuser. He's twisted
my brain so badly and consistently over the years that I am exhausted
and doubt my sanity most days. He recently starting venturing into
physical abuse and blamed me because I'd yelled at him and that's what
prompted it. I don't know if I'd be better off alone...he seems to
think all our problems are really mine and I will carry them with me
everywhere. We've been together for 7 years and I really have no
clarity anymore. I just know I'm angry and fearful and confused.
P.S. My son is abusive too. I get it from
every angle, which is why I wonder if perhaps there really is something
to it all being my fault? No one who doesn't live with me can believe
what I put up with. Maybe I really AM crazy. B1: Submit Well
I'm confused. I've recently been accused of verbal abuse. In reading
your article, I see elements of myself:
- unemotional (confirmed by other people)
- do not provide complements readily (i.e. I rarely use superlatives
again confirmed by others)
- Quiet, restrained. I've been told that I'm too "analytical".
- In my relationships, I've been told that I don't stand up for myself.
However I seem to have 3 styles: Personal Spouse - easy going, afraid
to rock the boat etc, Children - Dictator, Work - Speak my mind (with
diplomacy to superiors)
- Never Never ever use direct put-downs to my spouse (past or present).
However, the other items that you've mentioned (e.g. lack of
complements) are characteristics of my past. With my failed marriage, I
discovered that women need to be supported this way; seems the opposite
with my buds at work - we want and need critism and we go at it
cats&dogs at times (never use put-downs) but we do make out
thoughts known. I don't like Political Correctness and feel that if
someone is wrong (from my point of view) they should be told (in as
gentle a way as possible - I'm learning to use the "I" rather than
"You" technique). But at the end of the day, I'm still total confused.
I suspect that I have characteristics of both sides. B1: Submit Well
I'm confused. I've recently been accused of verbal abuse. In reading
your article, I see elements of myself:
- unemotional (confirmed by other people)
- do not provide complements readily (i.e. I rarely use superlatives
again confirmed by others)
- Quiet, restrained. I've been told that I'm too "analytical".
- In my relationships, I've been told that I don't stand up for myself.
However I seem to have 3 styles: Personal Spouse - easy going, afraid
to rock the boat etc, Children - Dictator, Work - Speak my mind (with
diplomacy to superiors)
- Never Never ever use direct put-downs to my spouse (past or present).
However, the other items that you've mentioned (e.g. lack of
complements) are characteristics of my past. With my failed marriage, I
discovered that women need to be supported this way; seems the opposite
with my buds at work - we want and need critism and we go at it
cats&dogs at times (never use put-downs) but we do make out
thoughts known. I don't like Political Correctness and feel that if
someone is wrong (from my point of view) they should be told (in as
gentle a way as possible - I'm learning to use the "I" rather than
"You" technique). But at the end of the day, I'm still total confused.
I suspect that I have characteristics of both sides. B1: Submit I
am angry at myself for abusing my partner the other day. My friends and
family are all telling me I'm in an abusive, unhealthy relationship,
but I just keep going back to him. The other day, I lost total control
of myself when he began degrading me and calling me "worthless." I said
I would not tolerate being treated like that and that I was going to
leave. As I went to put my car keys in the ignition of my car, he
pulled them out of my hand and refused to give them back to me. He
taunted me with them, pretending he was going to give them back to me.
But he never let my keys out of his tight-gripped fist. I asked nicely,
then I demanded, then I yelled for him to give them back to me. Then,
the whole event escalated, and I lost control and kicked him. He pushed
me down, I hit him on his side. He spit at me. I even got to the point
where I began to bite at his hand so he would give me my keys back, but
I didn't want to hurt him, so I stopped. What can I do so I don't
resort to becoming the abuser as I did in this situation. I have always
considered myself to be such a peaceful person, and now I'm so angry
with myself for losing total self-control and lashing out violently. B1: Submit My
husband claims I abuse him because he has called me horrible,filthy
names and I have told him to stop or I would slap him. Of course, he
doesn't stop, on occasion, I have slapped him. It started a physical
fight.I know now to disengage and not say anything.He claims HE is the
one who is abused. This website has helped me SO much! I am in the
process of moving out and filing for divorce from an abusive alchoholic. B1: Submit It
was very interesting to read this article. I have been abusive with my
husband and also my mother and gave up drinking as a result of this, 19
years ago.Before I gave up drinking, I gave as good as I got.
However I find it very hard to get out of the cycle because now if I am
expressing my feelings at being abused, my husband yells at me and then
accuses me of abusing him and causing him to lose his temper.
Iwas going to leave him ten years ago, but he poses as the victim now
if I go to counselling. He tells them what I do, sometimes from 22
years ago and then says I am lying about his behaviour
Because I have stopped drinking, I have the label 'alcoholic' but he
still drinks very heavily and has persuaded health professionals that I
am lying about his drinking and blaming him.
It's all such a game, and he is so clever at it that I doubt myself at
times. Also I get extremely angry and experience depression. I have
friends and interests now and have a support system.
I have apologised for what happened in the past, but I know that that
hasn't made any difference. In fact it has left me in a vulnerable
situation.
I end up giving in to his every wim just to keep the peace. He is very
ill now and I don't feel as though I could live with myself if I left.
As well as that there are times when we get on quite well (although
that is when he is getting his own way)
I used to think that only one member of an abusive relationship could
be wrong and only one right. This has clarified things a little for me.
I feel abused but I seem to be the one in the wrong all the time. Now I
see this as abuse too. I just have to be very careful not to react in
an abusive manner B1: Submit My
husband, the abuser, is not wanting to accept the things I am telling
him about how he has been abusive and controlling. We have had a
difiierent life style in that I have been selling my artwork and my
husband has been helping me for the past 20 years. He has been very
supportive of me selling my work, yes, but he is also abusive in that
he has been getting the benifits of living a certain lifestyle because
of me and has not been loving and caring of me. He is angry a lot and
now that I have decided to stop doing my drawing because of servere
burnout and health problems--we have two childen also--he is VERY angry
and blames me for his loss of income and destruction of the lifestyle
he is accustomed to. I don't know what to tell him. B1: Submit I
would like to talk about an abusive experience hailing from the
work=place. I identify myself as the victim. My employer treated me
badly for four years before I could leave this job and find another.
Basically the only reason why she could do this was becuase I placed
her needs before my own. I did not reach out for help from comptent
professionals either. To pour oil on troubled waters, I hid my hurt
feelings from everyone in the work-place (except my abuser) meaning I
was entirely on my own. I encourage all those who are bullied at the
work-place to reach out for professional help (from a solicitor,
psychotherapist, priest, etc. as quickly as possible).
Aaron. B1: Submit Many
thanks for your advice. I have been married (2nd time) for 17 years,
and my wife has battled with my two daughters since day 1. I am not
allowed to see them, talk to them or even refer to them in any way. Due
to her actions, she has even been in Court with orders against her to
stop harassing them. I have four beautiful grandchildren and miss their
company greatly. I am a college educated man, 6ft tall and considered
intelligent, working in amangemnet and eventually my own business
mostly in South Africa. I am now in my 65th year, and I keep asking
myself why do I put up with it? My wife is 48 this week: I adopted her
son from a former marriage, but he died of cancer two years ago aged 16
- a great loss. I have now reached the watershed, and if my current
wife, Beverley, does not now change completely, it is divorce, which we
both do not want. She alternates from very loving to fights where she
even hits me and breaks things, and even if my children are not the
start of the fight, they are soon brought in and are responsible for
everything, including the death of our son. Any friends or hobbies I
have had are discouraged, and she seems unable to find real friends.
She does not like me going out on my own. As I write this, I feel
stupid at having allowed this to happen, but I was married for 25 years
the first time, and my first wife left me after getting a good job. It
is the same story told before I am sure. Anyway thanks for the info. I
am going to discsuu it with my wife. Brian Deller, Malaga Spain B1: Submit Now
, I am really confused!! This article is telling me that as the victim,
I too have a problem. If I confront him and tell him I have had
enough... then I am the one with the problem and he has to watch
everything he says to me. It is a catch 22.. maybe it is easier just to
pack your bags and leave.. after 27 years... this welcome mat has had
enough... What do I do??? B1: Submit I
was not sure if I was being controlled or abused in this fashion. there
are a lot of signs that truly suggest that it was a controlling and
verbally abusive relationship. My willingness to please just to avoid
conflict and wanting to love no matter what is a sign of being a
victim. I am allowing my self to be a victim because I no right from
wrong. I quess any form of love is better than none. what I want and
what I need are 2 different things. i did not trust him in not throwing
me and my daughter out again and agin. Everything was my fault in his
eyes, I did not clean right or cook right, i was a whore, the way I
acted the way i dressed, he bought the clothes. I was sick of not
meeting up to his standards. I grew up poor but I work and go to school
and I got a's and if I go a b or c he would say lets get a;s. he
thought i was always cheating, but I never left to go to miami for 4
days and he still wanted to know where I was. I wasnt a good parent to
my daughter but I could watch his kids when he had things to do. I was
not perfect because I was angry. I would go a few times and just talk
to any one and I did drink but I remained a good girl. No he threw me
out again after igave up my apartment. He made demands that I met. But
still nothing I did was good enough.. B1: Submit I
found your web site very educational. I am in an emtionally abusive
relationship and was starting to wonder if I was the abuser? But the
very last paragraph spelled it all out for me. Thank you. I need to
take care of me and I do accept what i do wrong as well as what I do
right. B1: Submit You hit the nail on the head sister. I am acused of this all the time. They can,t take a dose of their own medicine. B1: Submit For
a long time, I felt like our marraige was working. Then the revelation
of an affair my spouse had several years before revealing it to
me......and total devastastation of my idea of who we were as a couple.
What made it so much worse for me was the knowledge that several other
people knew of the affair, and never revealed it, although they were
"family friends". Their decision to keep quiet was based upon what they
thought I may do if I found out. So as a married person, I felt like I
had been forced to live a lie unwittingly in front of people who were
trusted more by my spouse than I was. Over the next few years, my
spouse and I went to ongoing religious counseling, where twisted
Scripture was used to show me that I was indirectly responsible for my
spouse's affair by not providing enough of a nurturing/accepting
environment. My unwillingness to accept this theory caused me to feel
confused, angry, even more rejected, withdrawn and alone. My spouse
responded by telling more and more of our social aquaintenances and
family members of the "problems" I was dealing with, without ever
explaining what the basis of this conflict was. When I tried to
explain, I was told I was defending myself, in order to not have to
accept the "responsibility" for my spouse's actions, which created more
hostilities and mistrust. The arguments increased, the hostilities
heightened, and my spouse of 25 years claims to be the victim of
emotional abuse. After a lengthy marraige, we separated as divorce
proceedings began, and now find that neither one of us can rebuild the
trust necessary to re-establish our marraige. I have had to make
enormous financial, emotional and spiritual decisions in my life to
compensate for the past 12 months, but healing is taking place through
a stronger faith in things eternal, and a focus that now includes
taking responsibility for MY actions, as I let my spouse take
responsibility for hers.
B1: Submit Thank
you for that post......I am assuming you are a man, since the last word
in your short story was "her". I am a man also, and am embarrassed to
admit that I have been in an abusive relationship. I think that it is
much harder for men to admit, as they are then characterized as "wimps"
but males and females alike, and since size and gender has nothing to
do with emotional abuse, it only leaves scars on the heart. B1: Submit I
have long suspected I was in an abusive relationship, but it wasnt
until I found this sight and saw the SAME traits that are in my husband
that I now know I have a real problem.We have been married almost 6
years and have a 2yr and 7 month old. Before we were married he was the
man of my dreams. Never had I felt so loved and safe! 6 months into the
marriage,however, a very different man emerged. He is very
critical,controlling of my time with friends and family(HATES all my
friends),gives me the silent treatment,and blames ALL things-act of god
or not- on me. He also has the everpresent sexual problem. When he
wants it he mounts me as if I were nothing more than a possession. If I
say no he rolls over and pouts,or says something nasty. I have had
physical symptoms over the years:like migraines,insomnia,breathing
problems, and finally I am getting an ulcer! I just entered a program
at school that will provide very well after I graduate,but if I leave
now I wont be able to make it-not with 2 kids this young. I know I have
to suck it up for 2 more years till I graduate,but I wanted to thank
Dr.Irene. You took the blinders off me, and made me see what was really
going on.....God, how did this happen? B1: Submit I
have long suspected I was in an abusive relationship, but it wasnt
until I found this sight and saw the SAME traits that are in my husband
that I now know I have a real problem.We have been married almost 6
years and have a 2yr and 7 month old. Before we were married he was the
man of my dreams. Never had I felt so loved and safe! 6 months into the
marriage,however, a very different man emerged. He is very
critical,controlling of my time with friends and family(HATES all my
friends),gives me the silent treatment,and blames ALL things-act of god
or not- on me. He also has the everpresent sexual problem. When he
wants it he mounts me as if I were nothing more than a possession. If I
say no he rolls over and pouts,or says something nasty. I have had
physical symptoms over the years:like migraines,insomnia,breathing
problems, and finally I am getting an ulcer! I just entered a program
at school that will provide very well after I graduate,but if I leave
now I wont be able to make it-not with 2 kids this young.Oh, he also
likes to tell me that if I leave he is going to keep the kids. I tell
him that this is Georgia,and unless I am caught using my kids to deal
crack there is no way he is getting them. I know I have to suck it up
for 2 more years till I graduate,but I wanted to thank Dr.Irene. You
took the blinders off me, and made me see what was really going
on.....God, how did this happen? B1: Submit The
trouble with dealing with narcissistic and abusive people whether
emotional, verbal or physical is that they still see themselves as
"victims fighting back" due, usually to the abuse emotional, verbal, or
physical THEY received as children. In this "mind game" they are of
course "never wrong and the victim". They have NOT developed "healthy"
perceptions of human interactions due to the abusive way they were once
treated. It IS a case of the former victim becoming a future abuser.
They are also armed with all the TAUGHT tools of displacing guilt for
the abuse their parent used. They have been invalidated in the past and
now they must invalidate any one else and their perceptions, and are
excellent at projection or displacing of guilt. This is what was done
to them when they "protested" their abuse as children, so no wonder
they are so good at it. IN reality they are both the victim AND the
abuser in their minds and actions, making it very difficult to deal
with them. They not only recreate THEIR role as the victim child, BUT
have also adopted the role or tools of the abusive parent to project,
cover us, deny the abuse being given. It IS a vicious cycle and yes,
sometimes we as victims of the victimized become "abusive" in helping
them to see WHAT is going on and in boundry setting for ourselves.
Dealing with someone "not there" in a normal sense, someone that is
DUAL rather than whole is VERY maddening at times. They do not "see"
real logic, but a convoluted logic applied during their youth by an
abusive parent. I agree that our boundry setting doesn't jive with
their sense of entitlement. I also think that "normal" approaches to
"communication skills" do not work too well as there is a short circut
from the ears to the brain, CAUSED by their abuse. They live in worlds
of denial, have had much practice at it and all the "coping" skills
that an abused person will employ. The thing about abuse is that it is
"passed on", so are narcissistic behaviors. The two then combine in the
abuser to the point "finding the REAL" in terms of normal is next to
impossible. They do not asorb they mirror and distort EVERYTHING. They
often do INTEND to turn the victim into the abuser.This of course is a
replay of what exactly was done to them. It is like a hall of mirrors
stacked one in front of the other to THEM, and to us, as soon it is
impossible to tell which is reality and which is "in the mirror". B1: Submit Reading
the posts has made me wonder about the victim/abuser phenomenon. I was
married to an abuser (verbal and alcohol) and have emulated his
inappropriate verbal behavior at times. While reflecting on the
victim/abuser issue it has occurred to me that when I emulated his
behavior he retreated. I learned to invoke this behavior when I was
really tired of dealing with him because it was the only time he would
leave me alone, nothing else worked. Perhaps he was retreating into his
victim role at those times and playing the part he learned as a child.
Perhaps I became the “adult” in his eyes during those times and he
found it difficult to stand up to me. Of course he would resent me and
it would be worse later when the roles again reversed. I of course had
to be stronger (abusively) to reverse the roles again to stave off his
abuses.
I am not in anyway trying to justify my own abusive behavior. It is
clearly wrong. Both the victim and the abuser roles are very draining
and eventually I had no energy left to put into my marriage. My
behavior did contribute to the further breakdown of the marriage,
although without both my husband and I changing the marriage was
doomed.
To the guys who are writing in, someone saying you're a wimp is like
the reverse of a woman being called a whore. Although whore means low
moral standards while wimp means weak the point is someone is trying to
put a demeaning label on you. They are trying to make you feel inferior
with the word they think will be most affective. The fact that you are
facing these issues shows that you are strong. We all deserve to be
treated with respect, regardless of our gender.
B1: Submit I
am a victim turned abuser, wife 20. It started with beautiful lies, and
then unsettling inconsistencies; and when I (thinking myself to be
impervious to abuse due to my strength and intelligence) began to
question my husband's dishonesty, he escalated his tactics. He became a
different person entirely. And when an outburst occured, I met his rage
in kind. He had no idea. I had no idea. I knew that lies were evil
things- and believed that if I screamed enough, cried enough- if he
LOVED me enough; that he would admit his duplicity and change his
low-down ways. Everything runs deeper than I ever knew. Our issues are
so profound- my unwitting dependence- his blaming anything but himself
for his own wrongs. He had me thinking I was crazy- and maybe he truly
believed that I was- because I was under so much stress so constantly
that I would freak out about things that healthy people can handle. I
thought it was depression. My fault- if only I had known that there are
profiles and text-books and even damn WEB SITES that can describe my
marriage to the letter! I left him last week; BEFORE I knew about what
verbal/emotional abuse truly is. I was thinking name-calling. But it
can be so subtle that you can't even describe it to anyone else. So
quiet and socially acceptable that you feel like an over-sensitive
psycho. Our one-year-old daughter had begun to pick up on the awful
vibe- so I took off without knowing just what I was running from, and
I'm so glad I did. Thanks for helping to educate about this public
enemy- and my husband and I are quite shocked and are (although
separated indefinitely) seeking professional help. B1: Submit I
was married to a highly abusive woman for only a short period. We
married because she was pregnant and it almost immediately became clear
I was a merely sperm-shooting paycheck, and her verbal abuse was
intolerable. I recognize exactly the symptoms you and others (The
Judge) have described on this site. It will help me in presenting
myself in the future - this is important because I have had to go to
court and expect I will continue to have to go to court to see our
daughter. One thing, though: I've now met many people who came out of
abusive relationships, and I believe it is the victim who leaves. The
abuser needs the victim more than vice-versa. That's not to say you
can't have instances like the one you described where a potential
abuser lurks inside a victim, but I think it is a good rule of thumb.
Peter Greiff, Madrid B1: Submit My
wife is venomously abusive in private and humiliates me constantly. Any
attempt to reason is met with crazymaking of the first order. She read
Patricia Evans book on verbal abuse and adopted the victims posture.
Now she has a pretext for all her anger and accusations. If I try to
rally facts she accuses me of not listening and being hopeless. We go
to a counselor and she has him completely buffaloed. She is charismatic
and socially skilled and a great story teller (never forgets a flaw.)
Now after 10 years of accusations and being on trial and forced to
admit I,m wrong, I am on trial again in the therapeutic situation,
being required to admit I'm wrong and if I don't it just proves the
point all over again, I just won't listen because I think I am so right
I can't hear anything else. So now I have a whole new category of
accusations to defend myself from. And now with this charge from the
therapist, everything I say is wrong and just proves her point. So she
is now almost out of control with anger, and I am totally without human
respect. What have I done that is so bad? That is never made clear. But
not having anything bad I have done, my sins have become sins of
omission and character failings and things I should have done. In 25
years of marriage, I have given love, affection, support, financial
well-being, never put anything dysfunctional on our children, never
bought anything for myself, been home everynight, never said anything
malicious or mean - when I defend myself it is for the purpose of
making things right - which defenses shes spins as control and abuse
and argument and "not listening" She has always had these patterns, but
the last few years they have gotten a lot worse. She has become an
authority above all things. A year ago I drew a line in the sand and
said no more abuse, things can't get better until you recognize your
problem. Some time after that she became the victim and her pretexts
for anger and control and abuse were now always at her finger tips.
(Kind of like counter-suing) Life has become a nightmare. How can
someone you've loved, sacrificed for, given everything she wanted and
never wronged in any way, turn around and hate you without mercy, tell
you I'm going to divorce you, destroying the family and life you've
built and the finances, and my only sin is what I didn't do, and even
that is a false charge, because anyone could always in hindsight have
done better. And sometimes the charges of what I didn't do are just
patently absurd falsehoods. How can someone become so hateful to
someone who has done them nothing but good. And then the therapist
can't see it because she is such a skilled orator and I'm sitting there
beaten down, crushed, oppressed unable to find my tongue. And when I do
speak in my defense, it only makes me wronger. What a nightmare.
Steven B1: Submit I
have the same problem! When my husband first started to act abusively
(nothing physical-all verbal and emotional), I gave HIM the benefit of
the doubt! But I could only stand so much of his lying, manipulations,
controlling, pouting, etc., all designed to get HIS way! At first, I
was 'passive'. I DID confront him on his behavior, but it was in a
'mellow' way. After experiencing his abusive conduct for about a year,
I began to 'fight back'. Now I've realized that although I didn't 'turn
into HIM', I am definately NOT the person I used to be...or even WANT
to be! I really can't 'be myself' while being with him, and I don't
like who I feel I have to be in order to be with him. I feel I have to
defend myself at every turn. He has also accused me of having an 'anger
problem'. I don't get angry at the drop of a hat. I get angry because
of his LIES and belittlements, etc. Goes to show ya how often they
happen! I see how he tries to emesh himself with me claiming he's 'just
thinking about the relationship'...since when does my using the same
brand of shampoo HE uses have anything to do with the relationship? He
constantly begins sentences with the words, "I want US to..." and
usually finishes it with something that HE wants to do, that HE never
asked me about doing! If I don't want to he cries, "You don't want to
be a couple!". It's a lose-lose situation, that I will hopefully get
out of soon! B1: Submit ABUSER: CONTROLLING, JUDGEMENTAL, ANGRY, ARGUMENTIVE, DEMANDING.
VICTIM: SUBMISSIVE, COMPLIANT, MEEK, AGREEABLE, GIVING.
ABUSER: CONTROLLING, JUDGEMENTAL, ANGRY, ARGUMENTIVE, DEMANDING
VICTIM: REBELS, DEFEND, ANGRY, ARGUMENTIVE, DEMANDING.
ABUSER: ANGRY
VICTIM: ANGRY B1: Submit ABUSER: CONTROLLING, JUDGEMENTAL, ANGRY, ARGUMENTIVE, DEMANDING.
VICTIM: SUBMISSIVE, COMPLIANT, MEEK, AGREEABLE, GIVING.
ABUSER: CONTROLLING, JUDGEMENTAL, ANGRY, ARGUMENTIVE, DEMANDING
VICTIM: REBELS, DEFEND, ANGRY, ARGUMENTIVE, DEMANDING.
ABUSER: ANGRY
VICTIM: ANGRY B1: Submit I
am a verbal abuser and I want it to stop,PLEASE HELP ME STOP THIS when
my buttons are pushed. I do not know what to do. I need help.My god my
family is falling apart.Can it be saved.Please anwser with some kind of
info..PLEASE HELP ME. JOHN B1: Submit I'm
confused. I'm reading this because I think I'm in a potentially
deteriorating relationship, and am desperately trying to hold on to my
boundaries. I'm watching my boyfriend slowly let his life slide down
the drain, and know that his behaviour is likely due to his own bad
feelings about his own actions, but I feel like I'm letting my own life
slide down along with his. I don't know if I'm being sympathetic, but I
don't want to go down with him. I feel bad trying to excel when he's
clearly failing at so much, and hurt when he lashes out at me. I don't
think I remember where MY boundaries are any more, although I keep
feeling his expanding farther and farther. B1: Submit I
highly agree with boundaries. And stay out of your codependency and
work on intimacy. It is a hard road and alot of work but respect
yourself and say you are worth it and you are special!! B1: Submit As
I sit here printing out hundreds of pages for my verbally abusive
husband, who supposedly isleaving me tomorrow and has cancelled all his
business meetings (he is job hunting), I can say you are 100% right.
And, tomorrow when he leaves I will laugh, as he will not leave and he
will go to his meetings. Why how do people become this way.
Worse for me as I was brought up in a verbally abusive home. Last thing
I want is to live in one and create this environment for my son. I am
overly concious of not being this way.
But my husband calls me a fat bitch, lunatic and other wonderful names
and regularly says fuck off and does not listen to anything I say and
always interrupts and changes the subject. Then he denies he says it
and says "I love you"
Regarding sex, why would I be sexually interested or attracted to am
man that speaks to me that way (who also has not contributed
financially to our marriage in 5 years and has put me in enormous
debt).
WOuld you be interested in sex if you were me? B1: Submit As
I sit here printing out hundreds of pages for my verbally abusive
husband, who supposedly isleaving me tomorrow and has cancelled all his
business meetings (he is job hunting), I can say you are 100% right.
And, tomorrow when he leaves I will laugh, as he will not leave and he
will go to his meetings. Why how do people become this way.
Worse for me as I was brought up in a verbally abusive home. Last thing
I want is to live in one and create this environment for my son. I am
overly concious of not being this way.
But my husband calls me a fat bitch, lunatic and other wonderful names
and regularly says fuck off and does not listen to anything I say and
always interrupts and changes the subject. Then he denies he says it
and says "I love you"
Regarding sex, why would I be sexually interested or attracted to am
man that speaks to me that way (who also has not contributed
financially to our marriage in 5 years and has put me in enormous
debt).
WOuld you be interested in sex if you were me? B1: Submit Wow.
What a website. Am I glad there is so much company out there. I really
wish I would have known about this site a year ago.
I am an abuser. I only recognized that I was controlling and abusing my
wife after she left me. Now I am reading everything I can and going to
counseling. I want to be in control of my actions only and never hurt
anyone again. Is it too late? I hope not. I am truly sorry for hurting
anyone.
My wife is a beautiful person and I hope she decides I may be able to
share life with her.
I always thought I was the luckiest man on earth to have the woman I
married want to be my wife. I was so proud of her in her work. And what
a cook. Good looking too. Took care of me and the whole house. Smart as
well.
Every once in a while we would have an agrument. Ususally over nothing.
We have no kids. Lots of money. We both have stressful jobs and work
long hours. I work out of town for up to 2 weeks in a row. When we
argue there is no middle ground. Whatever the issue is, we both have to
win. Snide comments, name calling, yelling. I ususally end up saying I
am sorry. Doesn't matter what the issue is but I usually have called
her a name or said something bad.
I wonder what she is up to. I guess I am insecure.
Now she wants time to figure out what she wants. And I will support her
by not interfering with her time alone. I will stop the constant
emotional banter begging her to give us a chance. We need time to heal.
I hope I get the time to prove to her that she can trust me with her
feelings and maybe we can get back to our life and building our
marriage.
B1: Submit Yes,
my husband has me doubting who and what i am anymore. He tells me I am
a bully etc but I have just tried to keep my self respect but I have
risen to his derisory remarks and insulted him and I don't like who I
am becoming.I am glad to read this and I now try to remove myself from
situations. However the whole situation explodes in LA on a short
vacation lately when I was tired after flight etc just wanted to go to
bed, he started pushing me around and when I pushed him back and tried
to get away he headbutted me and nearly broke my nose and blames me for
provoking the situation. I think it is time to leave my marriage before
it escalates, get some counselling to see why i was attracted to him
initially,(the attention, love, gifts etc) and take it slowly, recover
and find a healthier relationship. We are married 11 months and I feel
I shouldn't have to go to counselling for all his problems that i am
constantly blamed for? B1: Submit Yes,
my husband has me doubting who and what i am anymore. He tells me I am
a bully etc but I have just tried to keep my self respect but I have
risen to his derisory remarks and insulted him and I don't like who I
am becoming.I am glad to read this and I now try to remove myself from
situations. However the whole situation explodes in LA on a short
vacation lately when I was tired after flight etc just wanted to go to
bed, he started pushing me around and when I pushed him back and tried
to get away he headbutted me and nearly broke my nose and blames me for
provoking the situation. I think it is time to leave my marriage before
it escalates, get some counselling to see why i was attracted to him
initially,(the attention, love, gifts etc) and take it slowly, recover
and find a healthier relationship. We are married 11 months and I feel
I shouldn't have to go to counselling for all his problems that i am
constantly blamed for? B1: Submit Yes,
my husband has me doubting who and what i am anymore. He tells me I am
a bully etc but I have just tried to keep my self respect but I have
risen to his derisory remarks and insulted him and I don't like who I
am becoming.I am glad to read this and I now try to remove myself from
situations. However the whole situation explodes in LA on a short
vacation lately when I was tired after flight etc just wanted to go to
bed, he started pushing me around and when I pushed him back and tried
to get away he headbutted me and nearly broke my nose and blames me for
provoking the situation. I think it is time to leave my marriage before
it escalates, get some counselling to see why i was attracted to him
initially,(the attention, love, gifts etc) and take it slowly, recover
and find a healthier relationship. We are married 11 months and I feel
I shouldn't have to go to counselling for all his problems that i am
constantly blamed for? B1: Submit I
feel this is happening to me. I have been abused verbally, I have been
battered, I have been diminished and told to change as I am the
impossible one. First I believed everything and thought I really
deserved this, and tried to change. And I wanted to leave him and go on
with my life, but he threatened me and I didn't have the courage. So,
now I am telling him to change and I am abusing him verbally, I am
turning into an abuser, if I soon do not find a way out. B1: Submit I
am a victim of abuse and have had many relationships that have left me
wounded but wiser. I don't see the victim ever being the abuser. What I
believe happens is that the victim has been so badly abused and has
held back their feelings that they just reach a point of I have had
enough. The victim then explodes on the abuser. As time passes on the
abuser still does not stop and the victim just has had enough. My
father died when I was 1 year old and my only brohter 8 years older was
very abusive to me. Later my mother remarried and my stepfather was
never a father to me. He was also an abuser. He never hit me but I felt
his mental abuse worst then had he hit me. At age 14 I was a virgin my
first boyfriend raped me. I married him. He was physically and verbally
abusive to me. I left him after 6 years of marriage and 2 sons. I think
because there was never a father/male figure in my life I tend to look
for the masculine strong side of a man that I did not have as a child.
This is what has got me in some very mental abusive relationships. I DO
NOT TOLERATE PHYSICAL ABUSE IN NO WAY. Some how I have let these male
abusers in my life and their control of me creeps up. I believe it is
the strentgh of a man that I am looking for but some how manage to find
that they are really control freaks. I am by nature sweet, lovely, with
a heart of gold as all my friends tell me. I have a gift of kindness
and it has blessed me with many friends. I have not learned to guard my
heart. All I expect is to be treated with respect. I will give you all
of me. When I see that I am a victim again I back off and protect
myself. I do not desire to treat the abuser with abuse. I usally hang
in too long. I will say again I don't believe the victim is ever the
abuser until the victim has reached his/her limit. amazingramona@aol.com B1: Submit I
am a victim of abuse and have had many relationships that have left me
wounded but wiser. I don't see the victim ever being the abuser. What I
believe happens is that the victim has been so badly abused and has
held back their feelings that they just reach a point of I have had
enough. The victim then explodes on the abuser. As time passes on the
abuser still does not stop and the victim just has had enough. My
father died when I was 1 year old and my only brohter 8 years older was
very abusive to me. Later my mother remarried and my stepfather was
never a father to me. He was also an abuser. He never hit me but I felt
his mental abuse worst then had he hit me. At age 14 I was a virgin my
first boyfriend raped me. I married him. He was physically and verbally
abusive to me. I left him after 6 years of marriage and 2 sons. I think
because there was never a father/male figure in my life I tend to look
for the masculine strong side of a man that I did not have as a child.
This is what has got me in some very mental abusive relationships. I DO
NOT TOLERATE PHYSICAL ABUSE IN NO WAY. Some how I have let these male
abusers in my life and their control of me creeps up. I believe it is
the strentgh of a man that I am looking for but some how manage to find
that they are really control freaks. I am by nature sweet, lovely, with
a heart of gold as all my friends tell me. I have a gift of kindness
and it has blessed me with many friends. I have not learned to guard my
heart. All I expect is to be treated with respect. I will give you all
of me. When I see that I am a victim again I back off and protect
myself. I do not desire to treat the abuser with abuse. I usally hang
in too long. I will say again I don't believe the victim is ever the
abuser until the victim has reached his/her limit. amazingramona@aol.com B1: Submit I just went thru this abuse. Thanks Dr. Irene you nail it on the head everytime B1: Submit AMEN.
Excellent website. Thanks. Yes, knowing boundaries and respect are so
important....I would like to add that the book LOVE, by Leo Buscaglia
Ph.D. and the book, People of the Lie by Scott Peck M.D., and
discussion of these were very helpful tools for me to help a man to
realize that he was doing bad things, and made him want to make more
positive choices in his life. i have related it to creating a "rut" in
the direction your life is going, towand the good and God, or toward
the bad and the Devis, whichever direction, and how deep is the rut the
rut you have created, and over how long a period of time, and whether
you want to change direction or not, you can, but it may not be easy to
get your bicycle out of a big bad rut. And that angry irrational
thinking is like being around a tornado when the emotions are strong.
Thanks for listening. B1: Submit AMEN.
Excellent website. Thanks. Yes, knowing boundaries and respect are so
important....I would like to add that the book LOVE, by Leo Buscaglia
Ph.D. and the book, People of the Lie by Scott Peck M.D., and
discussion of these were very helpful tools for me to help a man to
realize that he was doing bad things, and made him want to make more
positive choices in his life. i have related it to creating a "rut" in
the direction your life is going, towand the good and God, or toward
the bad and the Devis, whichever direction, and how deep is the rut the
rut you have created, and over how long a period of time, and whether
you want to change direction or not, you can, but it may not be easy to
get your bicycle out of a big bad rut. And that angry irrational
thinking is like being around a tornado when the emotions are strong.
Thanks for listening. B1: Submit I
am a happily married man and found this page while searching info for
rape victims. My search was specific to Christian recovery. This is a
very confusing issue you are writing about and yet never mention God or
the Bible. However, the response ends with Amen?
St Paul covers marriage and rights very clearly in Corinthians.
Unfortunately, modernism has destroyed Bible based values. As far as
anger and abuse goes, I can tell you that no one knows what buttons to
push better than your mate. You never mention negative stroking, or
people who push the right buttons to create a negative situation.
I have watched women provoke men to a point of no return. You cannot
play both sides of the fence by being a modern, assertive woman and
then hide behind the frailty of being the weaker sex. I am not
disputing someone's right to have boundaries. I am in disagreement with
any advise that is not Bible based. Witholding sex because one does not
feel well is certainly acceptable. Chronic witholding of sex requires
counceling by your minister.
The division of Victim and Abuser, when fuzzy, indicates poor
communication. If you feel you are a victim, have a look at yourself
and see if you provoke situations by pushing your mates anger buttons.
Remember that your knowledge of your partner's weaknesses and stregnths
are your responsibility. The buttons you push are your responsibility.
God Bless You All B1: Submit I
think I may be the victim of verbal abuse. I feel like I am losing my
mind. Sometimes can't tell if the problem is me or him. I don't think
it is me because I am a very laid back person and I hate arguments.
Through reading your signs of an abuser I now know where I stand. I am
being verbally abused. Where do I go from here. I don't know where to
start from here. I am always accused of being disrespectful. B1: Submit larger print on your main menue pages much is hard to read B1: Submit larger print on your main menue pages much is hard to read B1: Submit This
is eyeopening, my situation is not any different, but my abuser has
ADHD. I have dealt with anger, and right now I just don't like the
rollercoaster. I just recently started dealing with my boundaries and
learning to speak up. Thank for the article! B1: Submit Wow,
this article has really hit home. I have been setting my boundaries,
and I have noticed that my husband is having a huge problem with this.
I find myself becoming overally agressive in my remarks and always
feeling that I need a strong come back. So have I turned the table and
now I am the abuser, he states that I am just as manipulative as he
his. Shelly B1: Submit Good
thinking! My husband says I am abusive [and I am, too] when I offer to
drive a stake through his heart when he has spent hours, days or weeks
haraguing me about some aspect of my soul that doesn't seem quite good
enough to him. I, foolish girl, used to believe he might have a point
and that it was only polite to listen since my flaw was bothering him
so much. That didn't work. No matter how much I changed there was
always work to be done and eventually I would lose it and become, you
can bet on it, abusive. But didn't start it.
Now I just tell him to shut up and even got my own apartment which I
can throw him out of when I'm sick of him. Our marriage is much better.
Another improvement occurred when he started taking 5HTP [a seratonin
reuptake inhibitor available at the drug store or the health food
store. He reverts promptly when he forgets a couple of pills. So I
guess he isn't just a jerk after all!
Anyway, 37 years of marriage and counting.
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