Comments for Kids & Consequences

Comments: Kids & Consequences

Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos Copyright© 1998-2001. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

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Sunday December 16, 2001

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Monday December 17, 2001

Hi Wayne, I agree that children need and want discipline. I have seen both my children "lose it" or feel out of control. I have been following the rule of logical consequences with my 9 year old. If he doesn't remember his homework then his teacher benches him or he gets a bad grade. If he forgets his jacket then he is cold. I don't rush in to save him any longer. My 5 year old has said "Mommy, I hate you!" while running to her room and slamming the door. I don't say anything. Sure enough she comes back to apologize after sitting with her feelings. I validate that she is fustrated or disappointed but that down deep I know she loves me. I find it very important to tell the children that you do not approve of their behavior or action but not to label them as "a bad boy or girl". I have been feeling overwelmed lately due to the stress of my divorce and recovery. I am going to look into some parenting classes. It's a great place to exchange ideas, get advice from an counselor, and vent your fustrations. Most parents get fustrated because they don't know what to do or how to handle their feelings in the heat of the moment. I am now more comfortable with saying to my children I need some time before I talk to them and give them a consequence. It took me a while to really assert myself especially since my husband was undermining my efforts. I have noticed that their self-esteem has actually gotten better as they learn they have choices and are not powerless. I tell them that it's okay to make mistakes that is how we learn. It has taken a huge burden off of me! LisaMM

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Tuesday December 18, 2001

LisaMM, sounds to me that you have your act together. The concept of the rules is that the children know in advance what the consequences are. I do agree and disagree with the logical consequences concept. Some mistakes are so extreme that they may not recover. Try to cover all before they come up. I loved the parenting classes. My biggest bonus from the classes was the validation that most of the things I was doing were good. I kept second-guessing myself before I took the classes. I also found (from the other parents) many other ways to handle problems. That was a plus because one time the solution works and another it does not. So you must use another solution. Yes their self-esteem gets better when they feel they are in control of the choices. Another thing to remember is to say yes when it is possible. Some parents will say no but really don’t have a reason for saying it. Your point of getting back to them is almost the time out concept. Works for you and for them. Much easier to discuss something when everybody is calm. Keep up the good work. Wayne L. Misner

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Wednesday December 19, 2001

What has this got to do with a site for verbal/emotional abuse? This is not the help I need from this site. Dr. Irene....nothing new from you?

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Monday December 24, 2001

You ask, What has this got to do with a site for verbal/emotional abuse? In addition to all those sharing experiences and solutions of verbal/emotional abuse is preventing it in the future. Who are these people using verbal/emotional abuse? Where do the come from? What training have they had to perform so well? The abusive person of tomorrow is the child of today. So, we are trying to help the reader to use the proper tools to prevent the potential problem from happening. One other point—many abusive parents use the children as part of the abuse to get back at the other parent. Writing articles about the children help those facing the issues and share suggestions. Of course not all readers need this type of advice. If you happen to be one of those who does not need this type of help please bear with us for helping some who do. Wayne L. Misner

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Thursday December 27, 2001

Need some help here because i recognise that i was abused and so was my H so therefore we abuse each other and are raising a future generation of abusers/co-dependants. I am working on myself - cannot speak for my H. i believe in the actions and consequences mode of parenting - eg - my 15 year old son is often late for school. i call him in the mornings and I remind him again 10 mins before he has to leave what time it is. that is it - no more yelling and shouting anymore. My H thinks we will get into trouble because son is often late - i say this is not my problem - he is old enough to get himself to school. Bigger problem is that my son is not my H - both are abusive to each other - sometimes physical too. Usually I step in but since my lightbulb moment, i don't - they must take the consequences of their actions themselves. should point out that no one is getting marked or beaten here. BUT son thinks it is my job to protect him because I am his mother. h thinks I should control son's behaviour so that son is not offensive or abusive. i talk and listen to both of them but they are so wrapped up in their anger and resentment of each other that they are not listening and seemingly not willing to take responsibility for themselves. i know I have contributed to this problem in the past because we have not co- parented and my children from first marriage have divided and conquered on many occasions. At present older children are demanding the removal of my H from my life - this is the person that pays for their lifestyle etc. Older kids are not prepared to consider the feelings of our younger children in all of this - only their own feelings. So far I am still not prepared to allow either side to dump their anger on me inappropriately - I will listen if they talk - not if they shout or get insulting. How can I help this situation improve for everyone involved? Any good books on this please?

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Thursday December 27, 2001

You ask, How can I help this situation improve for everyone involved? Any good books on this please? Have a team meeting. Explain to everyone how you feel. I’m sure if you don’t like what is happening they don’t either. See if all of you together can come up with a contract that you all agree with. Most of the books I listed below can be gotten from your local library. Evans, Patricia The Verbally Abusive Relationship Holbrook, MA: Bob Adams, Inc. (1992) Joan, Polly Preventing Teenage Suicide New York: Human Sciences Press (1986) Madow, L., M.D. Anger NY: Macmillan Publishing Co. (1972) Wallerstien, Judith The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce Hyperion (2000) Smally, G. Keys to A Loving Relationship Relationships Today, Inc. (1988) (Video Tape) Beattie, M. Co Dependent Library of Congress: Hazelden Foundation (1987) Borgnine, T. Being Married Happily Forever NY: G. P. Putnam’s Sons (1997) Branden, N. How to Raise Your Self Esteem NY: Bantam Books (1988) Rosellini, G., Worden, M. Of Course You’re Angry Library of Congress: Hazelden Foundation (1985) Wayne L. Misner

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Sunday December 30, 2001

Thank you for the feedback Wayne. I have read a few of these books and they got me started on why this family behaves the way we do. H will not sit and discuss family rules - says they are not his responsibility with regard to the eldest children - but will still not leave me to deal with them alone. In the past I have been at my wits end with all the tension in this house - however I am trying different ways of dealing with it. I will not listen or discuss anything with 15 year old son when he is shouting or is abusive - I tell him I will listen better when he is able to control his temper. H has got physical in the past with all of this but since I reported him to the police last time he did so - he has managed to control his temper better. i have no idea whether my relationship with H can be salvaged but I am working hard on changing things with my kids - which doesn't mean I side with them - I try not to get between H and the eldest because I am aware that they are both playing to the audience - me! When I walk away without any comment at all - they both seem to give up somewhat. H will however persist in badmouthing the kids in front of them to his family when they visit - which of course means that if my son answers up for himself he is automatically judged as being everything H says he is - he cannot really win. Sorry this is long - but having read many other posts on the catbox I know this is something that is very common. Any more articles would be really valuable.

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Monday December 31, 2001

You request, Any more articles would be really valuable. You must read: Love Must Be Tough/Straight Talk James C. Dobson Format: Hardcover, 512pp. ISBN: 0849916542 Publisher: W Publishing Group Pub. Date: November 1999 Life on the Edge Love Must Be Tough James C. C. Dobson Dobson James Dobson Format: Paperback, 51pp. ISBN: 0849942314 Publisher: W Publishing Group Pub. Date: December 2000 When you take control of your life most of those around you are going to get upset. Dr. Dobson with all his wisdom guides you and gives you the knowledge and support you need to make the changes in your life. Read his books. Keep in mind you must communicate to all those around you that you want things to be better for all and they must work with you. Of course they will not understand. With the knowledge you gain by reading you will guide them. They don’t have the tools to change without guidance. Good luck. Wayne L. Misner

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Monday January 28, 2002

Hi Wayne,

Thank you for the article.

I have a question: What do you do if your child is defensive with you? I will clarify further, my daughter and i may be playing a board game, I will say these are the rules. As we are playing, she will say "No, that isn't fair" but the TONE OF VOICE makes me feel annoyed.

The same happens if I ask her to do something, I've tried giving choices. If I say "we need to go now" she will say RIGHT, or in a minute. Or some other statement but in an angry tone.

The angry tone, sets off a reaction in me. I then feel angry, and will start to lecture her. I might say who do you think you are talking to me like that. etc etc.

How do you handle this angry tone?

Thanks, I can't wait to hear you input Theressa

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Tuesday January 29, 2002

Hi Theressa, How old is your daughter? Children are looking for their own identity. They try to break away form the parents and develop a personality of their own. In addition they do compete with the parent and want to win for their own self-esteem. Also, they (like most of us) resent authority and don’t want to be told what to do, when to do it and how to do it. But, we are the adults so we give the orders and they must obey. Your giving choices are a great method and should be continued. You might try to explain that the rules of the game might sound unfair but they are the rules for all the players, which means if everyone plays by the same rules the game is fair. Wayne L. Misner

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Monday February 04, 2002

Hi Wayne,

I just noticed some things about mine and Mel's interactions. (Mel is my daughter).

We both have poor impulse control skills. We never discuss things. I may give Mel choices about clothes, food or even where we go out for the day. BUT on the day to day things, if Mel voices a different opinion. I reject it.

For example Mel paid for a club she goes to it was only £1 but I didn't have any change. So Mel paid the £1 out of her own pocket money. I said I would give it her back as soon as I could, when I'd visited the bank. Mel agreed to this.

Sometime went on and the following week Mel again paid for her club, and I did give her the money back as soon as we got home. I also gave Mel some other money to pay for her school disco. Today Mel said "Mommy you gave me back the money for the club this week that I paid out of my pocket money when you had no change, and you bought me a pair of scissors. And you paid for my disco. BUT mommy you didn't still pay me back the money you borrowed last week."

Well in my mind I thought I had. Though I had no proof I had given her the money back. I just couldn't remember if I had or hadn't. Though in my own head I thought, "Urm I bought her those scissors and I paid for the disco. And i even gave her extra for that magazine when we were out shopping and she didn't have enough money using her pocket money. AND SHE HAS THE CHEEK TO ASK FOR THE MONEY SHE LENT ME BACK."

Well yes she does have a right to have the money back she had kindly lent to me. Why is it the unwritten contract I had come up with for justifying her not having the money back. I had a free choice to buy the scissors and to give her the money extra towards her magazine since she didn't have enough using her pocket money. I also consciously paid for the disco. BUT NO WHERE DID MEL agree that for all these conscious gifts that she would forfeit having the money back she loaned me.

Also Mel was right if I didn't remember giving her the money back, is it her fault or responsibility. NO, it is mine.

I was the one who borrowed so if I want to ever borrow again then I should pay my debts. If I had borrowed the money from another adult and then said I hadn't paid them, would I pay them? I think I would.

"Urm but that goes against me being right, I mean I am an adult. " EXACTLY and therefore, I assume that I must be right!

SOLUTION: Next time I borrow I should make sure I note it down. And give it straight back to Mel instead of leaving it and then not knowing If I paid it back or not. ALSO I should not assume that Mel is wrong. FOR WHAT IF IT IS MY MEMORY THAT IS WRONG?

*** The lesson here for me is: That I am not allowing Mel to be a person in her own right. I am not using Impulse control skills. Which are to discuss and hear the others side of the story. Which is a part of them. I AM ONLY SEEING THINGS MY WAY. I have no evidence that I paid back the money, infact I can't remember if I did or didn't. Mel doesn't think I did.

SO who is to say I am right and she is wrong? There is only me saying I am right because I am an adult. If this was between me and another adult I would not just assume I am right. I would have to have proof or pay up. It is my responsibility to pay my debts back on time. And then there is less chance of memory lapse or confussion.

Therefore, I am going to do the honorable thing and pay up to MEL, and next time pay back as soon as I can so I don't have a memory lapse.

THIS HAS TAUGHT ME ALOT, that I want Mel to grow up healthy, but I am not displaying healthy communication skills. SO I NEED TO: Discuss instead of just assuming I am right because I am an adult.

ANOTHER thing is my expectation that Mel should do what suits me. E.G she is watching tv and I want to read. Mel was already watching tv but I then decide to read. Mel is an 8 year old child so she is bound to be figgeting etc. THIS ANNOYS ME, but I moan and moan and moan. I moan because I am not realising how unrealistic I am being. NO CHILD CAN BE ABSOLUTELY QUIET, NOT EVEN ADULTS CAN. So why do I sit whinny.

Because Mel is a child I assume she should do the impossible. Instead of being respectful and going somewhere else to read quietly perhaps in another room.

** I also decide to make phone calls when Mel is around and may want to spend time with me or help whilst she is bathing etc.

However, I still start off phone calls and then feel angry that Mel is mithering me. Instead of saying Look can you ring back later, or I will ring you back later. OR making calls when Mel is in bed.

If Mel was an adult I wouldn't expect her to stop GOING about her life for me would I?

I know Mel needs to learn to have respect if an urgent call comes through. Perhaps then I could agree with her that she does something in another room just whilst I take the call. **

MY POINT HERE IS: I expect Mel to grow up like a healthy kid but I make this difficult for her, with my unrealistic expectations, and my view that adults are always right. Without illustrating skills such as discussion. And seeing her side of things.

Without acknowledging that children have short memory spans SO if you borrow from them you need to return it ASAP. Therefore, there is no misunderstanding.

SUMMARY:

1.) Are my expectations impossible to meet? e.g Kids to keep absolutely quiet 2.) Is my belief that adults are always right? e.g doesn't another human being have a different view 3.) Are you lecturing or discussing? e.g Telling how you see it and ignoring important information, that the child is trying to share

4.)Are you making other things more of a priority than they need to be in place of your child being the priority? e.g Can that phone call wait until they go to bed

Isn't the priority to interact with kids and teach them problem solving, how to discuss issues, and see others point of view. See the world from other perspectives. Are you meant to be sharing good practices with your kids, are you sticking to your priorities.

What are we teaching our kids? Is it that there is only one way to look at the world. Is it that their opinion/view doesn't matter. Is it that we are always right and thus, our way is the only way. Is it that materials, and outsiders are more important than them as individuals.

We reap what we sow. I guess it is with our children we first need to practice impulse control skills.

Thanks for allowing me to share Theressa