Comments for J 2001 Update

Material posted here is intended for educational purposes only, and must not be considered a substitute for informed advice from your own health care provider.

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos Copyright© 1998-2001. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

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Thursday, May 03, 2001
08:27 AM

Dear J,

I am so sorry to read your last update. maybe , like you, wanted to believe that you two were going to make it. I can understand about your religious believes keeping you from getting a divorce. But I don't think God would want you to throw forfeit any change of happiness by staying with someone like Yolanda. She needs to get her own bearings and like you said, there is a change she may do so when your leaving provides a major life crises for her. Maybe you should read Dobson about this subject. he says God gives us explicit permission to divorce under certain circumstances. And as dr. I. said, God helps those who start helping their self. You deserve it J, you did all you could. And if you stay, you might well end up very angry and bitter, which I am sure is not a condition that celebrates life and God.

Take care of Yourself

Love, AJ

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Thursday, May 03, 2001
02:21 PM

J - sometimes God sends messages and it is up to us to hear them. Every time I started to doubt that my leaving my narcissistic/abusive partner was the right, something would happen to shake me up -- like being in the Northwest for the Seattle quake or a woman in our office dying of a heart attack AT THE OFFICE or nearly being hit by a truck driving home (almost at the same instant as the doubtful thoughts). I never been big on religion -- but someone was definitely sending me a wake-up call! Thankfully, I heard and heeded the message.

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Friday, May 04, 2001
04:50 AM

Dear J,

i can understand what you are meaning when you say that its up to her to start divorce proceedings - its like you do not want to be the one who has "pulled the trigger" on the relationship. you are almost waiting for her to pull the trigger... and until then you will remain miserable. i sense, maybe wrongly, that GUILT may be at the root of this. what i mean is that you don't want to end this because of the guilt you will feel knowing that Yolanda will be in pieces. its like you might be thinking "if i end this then i am a bad person because my marriage should be a success and i am a failure if i end it. i must not be the one who has ended this!". J, you are not a bad person if you choose to end this. you have power and choice in your life, but leaving the decision to her is giving up personal power, and for what? because of guilt, because you might believe you will be responsible for her subsequent turmoil and pain? she is responsible for herself, and don't trick yourself into taking responsibility. i left an abusive woman, though guilt-ridden at the start, i acknowledge that SHE was responsible for her turmoil, that i owed it to myself to look after ME first. i don't mean to sound harsh, but you have created a situation where you are miserable and powerless, and it needn't be like this. best wishes to you. :-)

Zig

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Friday, May 04, 2001
04:50 AM

Hi J,

I respect your values. Though I would question them. "for better or worse" EH!!

Do you truthfully think God wants you to suffer? Do you truthfully think you deserve to suffer?

There is no such thing as you made your bed and you can lie in it, until Yolanda says get up.

J is the one who should be making this choice. It isn't about God, Yolanda or anyone else. It is about what J deserves!

J, have you ever guessed your value to yourself. Aren't you in conflict with your values? You say you value staying in a marriage. But do you value J? Do you think he deserves peace and love? Do you think that Yolanda should hold all the cards, and decide on your fate?

I to, felt it was wrong to give up EVER! I wrestled with this for a very long time. I was brought up to stay put and work, work, work at my relationship.

Though I had to crack this belief, it was hurting me. GOD didn't want me to suffer, GOD didn't set up RULES that keep us trapped and feeling guilty and obligated. THAT WAS MAN!!

J, you decide and start now to get up and get on walking down your track. You are the author of your life. You deserve much better. So please question your beliefs.

J, question your beliefs about how you think people should be treated. And question your beliefs about not leaving unless told to.

Take care Theressa

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Friday, May 04, 2001
05:06 AM

Dear J,

I'll attempt to post this again as the first posting seems to have gone amiss.

i can understand what you are saying when you say that its up to her to start divorce proceedings - its like you do not want to be the one who has "pulled the trigger" on the relationship. you are almost waiting for her to pull the trigger and until then you will be miserable. i sense, maybe wrongly, that GUILT may be at the root of this. what i mean is that you do not want to end this because of the guilt you will feel knowing that Yolanda will be in pieces. its like you might be thinking "if i end this then i am a bad person because my marriage should be a success and i am a failure if i end it. i must not be the one who has ended this!". J, you are not a bad person if you choose to end this. you have power and choice in your life, but leaving the decision to her is giving up personal power, and why? because of guilt, because you might believe you will be responsible for her subsequent turmoil? she is responsible for herself, and don't trick yourself into taking responsibility. i left an abusive woman, though guilt-ridden at the start, i acknowledge that she was responsible for her turmoil, that i owed it to myself to look after ME first. i don't mean to sound harsh, but you have created a situation where you are miserable and powerless, and it needn't be so. :-)

best wishes for you,

Zig

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Friday, May 04, 2001
12:58 PM

I agree with your "diagnosis" of Narcissism on Yolanda's part. I felt the same way after I read the chapters, regarding my ex-girlfriend. A pure narcissist, at least according to the author. I was quite happy to read that the two of you had gotten back together, but now this outcome seems as if it were inevitable. She was only interested in winning you back, she got you, you took the bait, and now you're an underling. I do disagree with other's posts; I do not think YOU created this situation at all. (personally i feel that's a bunch of pop-psych B.S.) ...however, you are choosing to stay when you know the end will eventually come, you're letting Yolanda decide when this is over. I'll guarantee that in the interim she will continue to drain you, withhold emotion, sex, warmth. She is flat-out incapable of it. This is your chance to get out and find a woman who will be kind to you. Regarding the "unavailable" thing; some might say that you're passively avoiding commitment by staying with Yolanda, but again, I think that's pop-psych B.S. I think you just want things to work, and you may be having a rough time accepting that it won't. Cry your tears, feel your sadness, seek comfort in your friends, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, throw her for a loop by serving up the divorce papers yourself. There is a woman out there that will give you all you need and more, and you can give to her without her being a jerk about it. XX.

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Monday, May 07, 2001
07:30 AM

Dear Site,

I would just like to quickly update everyone about J. J is I. I am suffering right now through a very painful divorce. Yolanda is putting the "papers" into the lawyer's this week. I spoke with her last night, trying to appeal to her spiritual side but it is to no avail. Why J? You need this? Yolanda does not want me anymore and I have hand written proof that her ex-husband is now back in the picture in her mind. I am scheduled to see Dr. Irene tonight (May 7) to discuss this and a number of other topics. I have to tell everyone out there that being involved in this type of relationship is detrimental to anyone's health. It is torturous not knowing where you stand with the person. I have endured two break ups in the past while we were just dating and now I am faced with the worst mark on my soul, another divorce. Good thing God is not as hard on us as you are...I know that anyone who is familiar with my situation would not tell me that I have done nothing wrong in the eyes of God. Even my Pastor sympathizes with my plight. I am afraid that Yolanda is not really talking to the right people when she discusses her decision to dump me. If she spoke to a Christian pastor she would find that she is doing something very wrong in the eyes of God. I tried everything, even pulling pages off of the internet that quote scriptures about divorce but Yolanda will not read them. She is definitely not in the hands of anything good at this point. I know that I will be okay eventually. I am in God's care, I have learned a very good lesson, and I want a relationship. I am ready for love. I am ready for a good woman in my life. Where are they? I don't even know where to look. I think I will become involved in a divorce group. Perhaps I could ask Irene for some help there. I know that sharing my experiences with others should help me. I guess you all probably realize that I love to talk!

By the way, I am looking for a condominium as close to my daughter as possible. I know that I will be divorced in a few short months. Until then I will try to stay here (at Yolanda's house) and gather my things slowly but surely. Eventually I will be a free man and I want to use that time to discover more about myself. I need the time to spend with my daughter, spend time with my family and friends, and to be by myself. I like myself in spite of having been tossed aside by Yolanda. You've learned something valuable. Good. I should be used to this by now, right? The next lesson is not to get yourself into this place again. It's been three times already.

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Monday, May 07, 2001
09:28 AM

Hey J;

Looks like you're making some moves to get out of this situation. Good for you, man. I know it must hurt, though. But I really think you need to stop blaming yourself. You are not the cause of this! It boggles my mind that Yolanda would go so far as to marry you, then 10 months later be totally unwilling to take part in the relationship with you. She can only take, and never give, and somehow she thinks this is "normal". Ask her if she thinks this is how a relationship should be. I'd bet she'd have no answer. Believe me; I've been in your shoes....you want them to give, be kind, love you, etc., and it's so frustrating when they won't be the kind of person they were when you first met. Take some comfort in the fact that she never was that kind of person; it was a manipulation, to get you in to place to be her caretaker, while you get nothing in return. It's not like she "plots" to make things like this, it's just the only way she knows how to do things. It's her reality, crooked though it may be, and you no longer have to be a part of that reality. She will never meet you half way. She will never be capable of giving you the love you deserve. She will deny all wrongdoing. She feels totally justified acting the way she does, as odd as that sounds. She loves having power over you. She knows how much you're hurting. She just doesn't care. That was the hardest thing to realize about my ex; her idea of relationships was not about 50-50, equal give and take. She only wanted a constant power struggle, senseless drama, to manipulate me by telling me things every person waits their whole life to hear from someone else to win my trust, then abusing that trust.

Straight-up, I think there are people out there that seek equality in relationships, and others who have never grown up who still insist that relationships are about constantly battling for power. Some people really LOVE having power over others. So whoever yells loudest, wins. Love is only a game for those who fear it.

It's time to nurture J for once. And you're doing it! Keep going. We're your fans. XX.

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Monday, May 07, 2001
04:00 PM

J, I wanted to pass along something my therapist finally got into my head...

"She does not want to understand, does not understand, and you have to stop trying to convince an illogical person with a logical argument. You have to let go of your need to "make" her understand." Yes!

I had to sit with that idea for a while, but once I let go, I find myself feeling less and less "crazy."

Good luck, J.

Friday

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Friday, May 11, 2001
11:53 AM

j, i read all of your posts from the beginning. i am so sorry that you had to get to this stage to finally take your own advice. forget Yolanda. Do not contact her. do not stay in touch. Don't return phone calls, never reach out to her, stay away. you are not a sinner for taking care of your needs first. It is foolish for you to believe that taking care of Yolanda while she abuses you is something God expects from you. I believe you are using religion as an excuse to hold on to Yolanda. that's what a charlatan (hope i spelled that right) does.

Yolanda is in a lot of pain...but i assure you...her pain has nothing to do with not being able to have a stable relationship with you or with anyone else for that matter. Yolanda is in another zone, sometimes called the "dead-end zone." you cant help her J and it's a waste of your precious life to feel sorry for her because she cannot feel your compassion for her. sadly, she has no clue how deeply you care and how responsible you feel for her predicament. above all, she is incapable of understanding how deeply you feel. she cannot understand your needs. your needs interfere with her needs, just to survive from day to day. her life is like a black hole and this is very sad. someone hurt Yolanda real bad long before you entered the picture and nothing, nothing you can do will restore Yolanda. her predicament and prognosis is bleak. someone one bigger robbed her of life. you cannot fix this j. there is no cure for Yolanda. none. so stop j. stop, accept, resist, and be grateful that you have a life and that you can feel.

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Sunday, May 13, 2001
10:21 AM

Dear J, I'm one of the "old timers" on the site, and I remember your story when it was first posted. Frankly, I had doubts when you announced plans to marry Yolanda. I'm not really surprised by this latest turn of events.

My brother is the abuser in my family. You are going through the same cycles my parents, my brother's girlfriends, and I experienced. It's a real roller coaster, isn't it?

When you say that it is against your religious beliefs to divorce; I hear my father saying, "but he's my son." J, you are still stuck in "victim think."

Keep working on yourself J, and try to stop finding excuses to stay with Yolanda, and be good to her. It wouldn't surprise me if she called off the divorce, perhaps thinking that she taught you a lesson by filing divorce papers. For your sake, I hope this is not her plan, I hope she wants to divorce you, and that you will be strong enough to keep her out of your life forever.

And Dr. Irene is right when she says that God expects us to do stuff for ourselves. God has already given you the power to help yourself. Use it! Don't forget to be extra kind to yourself. Sis

Thanks Sis. J's doing OK. Pain is inevitable, remember? A part of life. It's suffering that's optional. J's cut his suffering to a minimum. He knows what he has to do. But, we all know that the task ahead is difficult; no shortcuts. He can handle it. He's grown by leaps and bounds in the past couple years. And, he will grow more. J: How are you?

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Monday, May 21, 2001
08:24 PM

Dear J: I have been following your story with Yolanda since the beginning as I had a "Yolanda" in my life too. IT IS HARD WORK. God does work in mysterious ways, through prayer/meditation, pulling away from the situation as comfortably as you can go, and reaching the acceptance point that she/he will never change - dealing with the loss can be tolerable. IT IS HARD WORK though, but having a higher power and being connected spiritually will help. I truly have experienced losing my spirit dealing with my "yolanda" and its an every day struggle for me. Time, prayer, meditation and self-love, and support of others does help. May peace find you.

Sharon

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Friday, June 15, 2001
11:17 AM

I struggled with the wedding vows vs. living with abuse for years. We have children so I stayed. Eventually he found someone else and left. To me this was God's way of saying "You've had enough". I tried to follow the rules and it nearly destroyed me. I don't know what's right or wrong with marriage vows and abusers. All I know is that I've rediscovered the me I knew many years ago. I have a full and wonderful life. I still have the torture of co-parenting with him, and somehow God will guide me there too. Keep praying, find the true you, she'll move on to the next one. Mine found an exact replica to replace me. She now has my hair cut and color, her house that they live in is decorated and painted like mine, she has arranged her days off to care for the boys, she has become my substitute. She sought him out while we were still married and she's welcome to my former life. My life now is soooo wonderful. Move forward J, it's a great and fun life out there.

Cinderella

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Friday, August 10, 2001
02:09 PM

How bleak. J realized his issues, put relationships on hold, hoping to make healthier choices, and ended up with Yolanda! For all of his increased awareness and suffering, he still wanted her. I have been forced to look at my codependent issues and for all my newfound knowledge, I'm still fantasizing that the man that rejected and abandoned me a month ago, might still come back for me. Then part of me hopes that he won't... This issue seems too hopeless to bother with. I find a big part of me does not want to change. Chaos, is where I'm comfortable. I know my way around that room. `A

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Saturday, January 26, 2002
04:48 AM

J, it sounds like you have been going round in one huge circle. If you leave it up to her to ask you to leave, youre just giving her another weapon to thrash you with. J, if YOURE not happy, LEAVE. You have been going around and around in this circle for years with her. Do not wait for *God* to tell you, for perhaps he has been telling you all along, and you just didnt hear. Think of yourself first! IF God is any God at all, he would NOT ask you to stay somewhere that makes not only you, but your wife unhappy, and leads to unfulfilling lives for both of you.

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Saturday, January 26, 2002
04:49 AM

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Monday, February 11, 2002
05:56 AM

You are as responsible of the situation as your wife.

I have been following your story from the beginning and I can say you are not through with this yet. Enough is enough ! Just get out of the marriage, and do yourself and her a favor. It was your mistake to accept bad behaviour from her; thus partly your responsibility that she became such a difficult person in the marriage. I am sure she also has some good sides.

A man should be decisive, and he should lead. Now that she had become so unacceptable for you, take the initiative, and finish it.

There is no such thing as a `Bad Person`. Nobody is perfect enough not to behave badly to whom she/he thinks she/he will never lose. and if she is really so unbearable, then I am sure losing you will also have positive effects on her, in the long run. Hopefully it will make her think.

And dont forget that women are wonderful creatures; just like we do most of the things just to make them happy, they do all to make us (men) happy.