Comments: Comments for There Goes the Wife
Submit Submit Dear Alan......It is nice to
see that you are willing to understand why you are doing this......and
that you are willing to understand and correct it for
yourself......Sorry that it ended a marriage.......I was on the other
side of this.....your wife's side.....and I understand what she is
going through.....I hope that you will be able to heal and your wife
also!!! I think you will be able to reach it with honesty and openness
in your heart and soul......Because this is a Soul Searching
process....to say the least.....Good Luck.....BeenThereDoneThat Submit Myself personally I believe
there is a deep seeded rage within people that abuse, and they are
unwilling or unable to reach it. Until that rage is found and dealt
with, Anger Management and the rest is the start of a band aid that
will cover the wound. It will do more good to find out WHY you have
this pull to mow over people - especially those you state you love.
Unless you find that "WHY" and find ways of acknowledging it and
dealing with it - you are just spinning your wheels. It will come up
again and again. If it is people or periods of ugly or whatever - you
need to place it to rest somehow. People that have hurt you in the
past, situations, whatever.. find a way to accept and move on. I think
everyone has those - some more ugly than others - some sound small to
others that are actually big to us - doesn't make a difference. It
affects you and that is all that matters. The anger management and the
rest - okay it will help but the bigger issues can't be ignored. After
all it isn't an anger problem - it is an abuse problem.
Alan you have a big hill to climb. Until you climb that hill and
conquer it somehow - your wife will always be scared even if she does
give you that second chance you are hoping for. LOL You have to
remember its your second chance to you....but is it to her? Your
opinion on that matter doesn't count - her's does! Do it and not ask
for to much acknowledgement and recognition! At first she really won't
care the way you want her to. In time you will not need that, and that
is when it will make the difference. Don't look for the difference - it
will show itself if it happens. If it doesn't happen, go on anyway.
Remember this for you and your life. That internal rage will pop up in
the future in a difference circumstance if you don't....it won't be
easy and it WILL be a long road!
The ending...LOL Well that is up to you no matter what she does! Submit Alan,
Hi. I'm so glad that you are taking this seriously and that you do want
to stop this. I have also been on the receiving end of this and it is
very hard. Abuse kills a persons spirit. It puts them into depression,
and sometimes depression is the best place you can be when trying to
live with someone who is abusive. My biggest problem in my marriage is
how my husband always has to blame me for everything wrong in our
marriage and everything wrong in his life. I think this is the biggest
thing you have to think about. You cannot continue to blame her. The
blame thing did not come up in your letter but this is one of the ways
you always thought and this you need to change. I really do hope you do
the hard work and keep up with it.
Best Wishes Submit Alan!
Come to the Catbox and interact with us.
Yes! Go! It's proof in the pudding,
Buster. If you're truly interested in healing yourself and your
possibilities for a GOOD relationship, you'll stick around and LEARN.
If not, then yer just in it for the outcome and have no interest in the
journey. IOW, your song and dance has made no impression on me.
Am I a tough cookie? No. I'm really not. I look for a genuine soul. If
you're sincere, you'll stick around here. You've tugged at Dr. Irene's
heartstrings. For the life of me, I don't know HOW you accomplished
that. Pfffffffft. Tallulah Oh, Tallulah... I should have known :)
(Actually, what Alan needs is both tough and soft. Soft that tows tough lines.) Submit Alan .... yeah I tend agree
with Tallulah .... I was thinking same thing as I was reading your
letter to Dr Irene ......"The proof is in the pudding!" Sorry mate ...
but you made you bed & you now lie in it!!!! Work on yourself
....??? yep great ... but you have hurt someone .... live & learn
to live with it! NOW you see the light? Maybe you destroyed the
batteries of the light for your wife had for you!
& that will be her choice ... Read Dr Irene's words again ..."Yes;
and you had no sane choice but to give her the space she wanted.
Anything else would have been controlling behavior on your part"
Sound harsh? Oh yes I totally agree ..... but so is ABUSE!
DMC
Submit Hi Alan-
I commend you for facing your demons and wanting to change. There are
many, many people who control and abuse who will never even see, let
alone admit and want to change, their destructive behavior. Dr. Irene
has many, many great articles on her website, read them! Therapy and a
12-step program may also be options. Do it for yourself, and not to get
your wife back. The improvements you will make in your own life will be
well worth it.
Peace,
Mandebrotforever
Submit Congratulation on being
willing to work on it! My husband and I are in a similar space. You
guys CAN get through it, but it takes big change- from both of you.
Your wife needs to know that you WANT this to change, and you support
her changes, her doing what it takes to fix it, want to hear her needs,
and are willing to change yourself. You're listening. That's great. We
found that for my husband, one of the greatest realizations was that it
wasn't that he needed not to get angry- though that was true- for his
sake, he needed to work on it. For my sake, it was all behaviour. He
could get as angry as he wanted and needed- anger is a sign that's
something's wrong, and you need to pay attention. BUT, he needed to
treat ME well in his anger. That meant respecting my choices, my
differences, supporting my decisions, and letting me express my
feelings, opinions, thoughts, desires for behaviour changes. And when
he was talking to me, it ws okay for him to say "I'm angry" or "I'm
upset", but not to pound the walls, to ask for behavior changes, but
not demand them, blame me (and seeing blame is HARD). He needed (it's
still a journey) to take responsibility for his feelings- I do not MAKE
him feel any particular way, and he needs to deal with those feelings
by being respectful of ME in the process. He needed to learn to
separate to cool down when needed- in short, refuse to rage. Excellent synopsis of a good outcome. Congratulations to
you guys! And congratulations to you - because it's too easy for the
abused person to become sooooo angry, they will never forgive. Repair of
an abusive marriage requires change in both partners. We're
still in the process. But it has been so good for him- and so good for
me to learn that this kind of behavior is not acceptable to either of
us. If you an be on the same team, working on this- your wife on
saying, "no, I won't take this", and you on "no, I won't do this", and
you can submit yourself to hearing from her and meeting her needs and
at the same time, take care of yourself, there's hope. It's hard work,
but worth it for both of you. Submit Its the need to CONTROL that
you need to work on and not so much the anger. Anger is just another
way to control. You need to delve into WHY you need to control. I have
to agree with Tallulah and DMC - if you're really serious, you'll
interact with us on the board. I think its so easy to tell the person
you've been abusing AND yourself that you're going to change but more
often than not its just another way of controlling the situation. The
proof IS in the pudding (banana, by the way, and if you look carefully
there are many toes floating around in it).
These ladies will certainly be tough on you Alan, and
that's OK, because others will be soft. You need both. I hope you join the
Catbox. For the record, given my
theoretical orientation, while it's important to understand the WHY to give you
insight and inner direction, it's paramount to learn the HOW (skills) to
change your thoughts and feelings, as well as behavior. Submit Alan,
I want to believe you, I truly do. But, having lived on your wife's
side of the fence, I fear you are only sorry for yourself for having
lost the best thing in your life. True, this is huge, but it does
nothing for your wife. It doesn't remove any of the scars that you
placed there with your raging. She still feels the pain of the jabs
you've long forgotten about. Your remorse now is, for her, too little,
too late. The pain you're feeling now is only a sample of what she's
been feeling for eight long years of torment that she didn't deserve.
I hope you meant it when you said you want to change. You need to
change those attitudes, regardless of whether your wife comes back or
not.
Ginger Submit Alan,
Thank you for your honesty. I am newly married to a man who behaves
this way to me. I feel despair when he does not even seem to realize
his part in what is happening and how his accusations and ridicule
affect me. I try so hard to please him and follow and anticipate his
wishes, but it is never enough. He immediately moves past what I have
accomplished to what still needs to be addressed or that I perhaps
approached completion of the task I was assigned without following the
exact specifications I was given. I hope he realizes, before it is too
late, how that sparkle in my eye for him is drowning in the tears I am
crying daily.
Unfortunately, it's unlikely he'll realize it until you've
had enough... So do yourSelf and your marriage a favor and try to get there
before you become too angry, too crushed. I
wish you wellness and success with your reconciliation efforts, or in
your next relationship. I bet, like my husband, your behaviors served a
meaningful purpose of survival at one time through hurts of your own
life before you met your wife. It is sad that those hurts kept you from
the happiness you finally had found. Best wishes to you and your wife.
SW Submit I have a question for you,
Alan.
My partner emotionally abuses me. She has acknowledged (once) that she
has some unrealistic expectations which cause her to get angry with me
a lot more than with anyone else in her life. That gave me hope, but I
haven't seen much change since then.
Any time I try to tell her she's hurting me, she gets very angry that I
am "accusing" and "blaming" her. Lately, when I tell her that something
she's doing is hurtful to me -- for example, snapping at me, giving me
the "cold shoulder" or "silent treatment", looking through a book while
we're trying to have a talk, crossing her arms, repeating my name at
the end of every phrase -- she says I'm "trying to control her",
"trying to control her body", "trying to take away her right to do what
she wants with her own body", etc. If I ask her *why* she just did, or
is doing, something hurtful, or *why* she is angry, she gets angry and
says I am "picking on her" and hurting her. After I started telling her
I am afraid of her anger and angry behavior and that I walk on eggs all
the time to try to avoid setting off her anger, she started telling me
that she is afraid of *me* and my accusations, and that she walks on
eggs afraid of what I'll accuse her of next.
I know that she is so deep in denial, there's not much hope of getting
through to her. But while I know that most abusive people never change,
I see people like you, who have woke up to what you were doing and
decided to change (yay you!). And of course I think, if some people
*do* change, then why can't my partner be one of them?
So what was it that caused you to finally hear your wife, and
understand what you had been doing? And if there was anything she could
have said or done that would have helped you to see yourself before --
years ago -- what would it have been? -- Angi, in pain Submit Wow, I want to believe you
too! But there is no Santa Claus. I hope that you find some way to make
things better in your life... good luck. I am proud of your wife for
knowing that she deserves better. Submit Hello;
I can relate to your story Alan, and at first I thought it was my
husband writing. I felt sickened and scared to see what I was seeing.
After 8 years of abuse I felt the panic attacks stronger and the need
to run for my life in March. That is why I left. I did not feel safe
anymore. I still live in fear and intimidation of him, and now I am
getting a divorce because his anger keeps pushing me farther away.. I
am alone and have lost my home, all my friends, family, and business
friends because they believe his lies. They only see the nice funny
guy. The intimidation doesn't stop. He still sends me threatening
emails and calls my work backline to leave me hateful words. I just
hope one day he will see his hate for me and stop trying to ruin my
life. I still care for him but his anger towards me is more important
to him. Everything and everyone else was more important to him. I was a
wonderful loving wife. I laid my life down for him everyday in love and
he stomped on it. I don't know if you will ever be able to undo what
you have done. The scares are too deep. J
Sounds like your H is one of those who will never "get
it." :( Submit Thank you all for your comments. They have all been insightful – some harder to hear than others, but all necessary.
Yes. I guess rather than send a really
long e-mail I will be sending comments back over the next few days. You
all have such courage in making such huge changes in your life.
I first would like to comment to SW and Agni specifically because they
are in the middle of trying to save their relationships now. I am so
sorry you are being treated the same way my wife was. I don’t know if
you have read any of the books Dr. Irene mentioned – please do! There
is so much information on setting boundaries. I started with The
Verbally Abuse Relationship by Patricia Evans. I think it really helped
clarify what I was doing. Although I am fully to blame for all of my
actions – I do wish that I saw it this clearly earlier. Possibly you
can initiate this in your relationships? Unfortunately we had no
boundaries in our relationship so I just kept going as if it was OK to
yell. I hate to say it – but I didn’t see it – truly! I was living in a
different reality and seeing with different eyes. I was so wrapped up
in my own thoughts that I truly never even thought – “I wonder how she
is feeling when I do this” I simply thought of it as the way we argued!
I never once heard or thought of the word ‘abuse’. Please set your
boundaries and tell your husband/wife IMMEDIATELY! If she/he sees how
serious you are maybe he/she will start to understand and then you both
can take steps to build your happiness again ( that is if its not too
late!)
If your partner is willing to go to counseling – please find one that
specializes in marriage counseling – maybe Dr. Irene or someone else
knows more terms of types of councelors?
And for J – thank goodness you got out of there. It must have taken so
much courage to do what you have done. I see so much courage in my wife
for doing the same. You mention that he is sending you threatening
e-mails. You can block his e-mails from your account so you don’t get
them. I am sure this makes it very difficult for you to move on.
I am so sorry for what I have done. Alan I like the empathy you're demonstrating Alan.
Excellent! Submit Dr. Irene and a few of the
others suggested I need to find the “WHY”. I was searching for the
“WHY” adamantly for the first week after she left. I really couldn’t
understand her feelings yet and once she said “abuse” I started to
recognize it. Then the deeper I looked I started to find all of these
patterns. Patterns that date back before her, before I was a teenager
even. Yes. I started to remember things my
parents would say to me like “Your being too sensitive” and “not now
Alan” I was constantly being put on hold. I was third born and was
always looking for attention but not getting enough. Yes. I bet at some level you felt this was unfair. I
am not removing my blame - because I was the one who treated my wife so
poorly - I have to live with that and the consequences.
What kills me is that I used to constantly tell me wife “Your not
listening to me” – guess who I was really talking to .. my parents. Bingo! Although my therapist
acknowledged this – he urged me not to concentrate on the WHY I was
doing it but would rather that I concentrate on how not to do it again.
DO I need a different type of therapy? No. The WHY is consistent with psychodynamic therapies,
which in my opinion, have some usefulness especially in understanding yourself
and helping you develop important mindfulness skills, but don't get you there
unless you somehow manage to find your way. The HOW therapies, the behavioral
therapies, get you there. The therapists guides you there instead
of letting you flounder. There is evidence-based outcome research
supporting behavioral approaches for many problem types. You can't argue with
results, and results are pouring in all the time. Unfortunately, old habits die
hard - so many counselors are trained in WHY therapies. They don't understand
and minimize the HOW approach. They think that unless you do WHY, you're not
really doing anything. Having trained both psychodynamically (WHY) and
behaviorally (WHY), this is my opinion. Keep in mind that this is an old,
ongoing battle between the therapeutic orientations and my statement is way
oversimplified. Or
is there more to the "WHY" - I will learn more in the weeks to come
I do want to get better – I do badly – and I am. I may lose my wife in
the process and I will have to accept that. The past 15 days my eyes
have opened to a different reality. I have read a few books before
these recommendations and am learning a lot of new ways to discuss,
listen and behave. Including joining one of the chat groups.
I_am_responsible@yahoo.com. They have been very supportive and cut me
no slack. It has been the most difficult 15 days of my life since she
left.
For anyone out there who just thinks they "get in fights" with their
mate - please take the time to think about your actions. You may be
causing much more damage than you realize.
Alan
Submit Finding the "why" versus concentrating on the "how" (to stop): I think you need to do both.
Right. The "third wave" of behavior therapies certainly
put more emphasis on the WHY, without compromising the HOW. "Mindfulness" is one
powerful technique that, among other things, helps one get to the WHY. Some
therapists just focus on the "how", but I think you can only go so far
with changing your behavior without getting at the root causes of the
feelings behind that behavior. I've certainly found that in my practice as a HOW
therapist. For
example, if you have a lot of anger, you can learn to "manage" it and
not act in abusive ways when angry, and you can learn to not let things
get you as angry... but the underlying anger, whatever you're *really*
angry about, will still be there. You won't have peace until you face
it.
Submit Here are some responses to Dr.
Irene's advice
Dr. Irene, this paragraph you wrote really made me shake. "What if my
loved one left me? Oh no! I can't give them that kind of power over me,
so I'd better not let myself get too dependent on my partner. OK to not
let them know how much I really care." Some think if you treat your
partner too lovingly, they will end up being taken advantage of, so
they never really give of themselves out of fear.
Yes... I remember when we first started dating.
Even when I knew I loved her – I could not say it – I chose not to. It
was almost as if I was playing a game. This feeling carried with me – I
was constantly not showing more love than I thought I should – in fear
I guess. Yes. In fear. In terror. I always had a
strange feeling – like I wanted to save it all up for that special day
or something really stupid like that. The whole time I was holding
myself back out of fear? Yes. It sounds so juvenile and stupid. I never understood why I had these strange feelings.
Why shouldn't you have them? Your parents kept you
wanting, never giving it to you from what you say. So, you grow up thinking that
to keep somebody loving you, you have to hold it back from them, or something
like that. Your parents modeled behaviors that you learned! And these thoughts
and feelings silently lurk in the back of your mind. They run your life, and you
don't even realize it because it seems so "normal," like breathing! Becoming
more mindful of what is lurking, and overcoming the fear of feeling it,
helps you automatically "repair" as well as understand what you have to target. I'm really in shock. I was such a child –
only if I saw how small I was – I would like to go back and tell that
kid to “grow up and learn to love his wife like a man.”
Please instead tell that child that he had every right to feel as he did. He was
not being treated very well. He should hurt! Allow that adult kid
to feel the pain and fear of loss. I
care for her so much. I took everything for granted. Always I would
watch her from a distance and have such love and respect for her. I was
always so confused with my actions after a fight. I never understood my
behaviour and I wish I clued in that I needed to fix it. I thought I
could do it on my own. I really showed myself didn’t I?
Dr Irene wrote:
"You may have even thought, at some level, that it was your "job" to
steer her." Dr. Irene, you are right again. I thought I knew better and
I thought it was my “job” to steer her. What a horrible thing to read
and say. I cant believe how controlling I was. Yes, and the funny part is that in your unconscious,
unknowing mind, you were doing the best thing for her! Its like a light went off in my head and the mirror is right in front of me.
Great! It really is sick and scary.
It's pretty common stuff; accept it even though you hate
it; feel it; don't deny it. Recognizing this stuff and owning it is the road to
change. Im trying not to take it out on myself but its hard.
Yes. Please read
Wherever You Go, There You Are : Mindfulness Meditation in
Everyday Life
by Jon Kabat-Zinn. It will
help you get to and accept and face and feel the WHY without judgment. Don't
just read this book. Read it in small doses, digest it, re-read it. And most
important, practice what it preaches every day. Even 5 minutes a day before you
go to sleep each night will help you tremendously over time. I had gruesome behaviour. I never want to repeat it again – I wont.
Once you start seeing this stuff, it's hard to go back.
But, you will repeat it again, at least inside your head, because there's lots
of it in there, and it's OK that you do - because that is how you will find your
way out. Then you will get to a point where you think it is all gone, and you
will find it operating at more subtle levels. Give yourself time. Love yourSelf
enough to give yourself the time you need. Just keep at it. "Work on yourself, and one day you will
be able to tell us what was going on in the back of your mind."
This is a hard one. How do I find these answers? Getting to the depth
of it all. How does one get to it if its hidden way back? I will read
the books – I want to understand it so that I can abolish it out of my
brain forever. Alan Besides anything written by Jon Kabat-Zinn,
psychology's mindfulness guru (This guy is a PhD of the "evidence-based" school;
the techniques work. He has applied mindfulness extensively to pain management;
the techniques, born of eastern philosphy, can be applied to anything.), the
touchy-feely self-help books will help you get to the WHY - and the Self
acceptance. Submit Finding the "why" versus
concentrating on the "how" (to stop): I think you need to do both. Some
therapists just focus on the "how", but I think you can only go so far
with changing your behavior without getting at the root causes of the
feelings behind that behavior. For example, if you have a lot of anger,
you can learn to "manage" it and not act in abusive ways when angry,
and you can learn to not let things get you as angry... but the
underlying anger, whatever you're *really* angry about, will still be
there. You won't have peace until you face it.
Submit Someone mentioned blame – yes–
when I yelled I was accusing or blaming. It was like – when I felt
myself get hot - I had to find something that was wrong. I cant believe
how easily it would happen and I would have no control at all – I would
allow this feeling to come from wherever it came from, turned my
eyebrows down and shoot out my mouth until the walls shook. Even a few
times I started hitting the steering wheel or the dashboard – I had no
control over me – only wanted control over her. Good for you for seeing this! I am so
ashamed by what I did. It was so horrible for her – for so many years
too. I am glad she had the courage to step out. I recently looked in
the mirror and tried to recreate that face. It was scary –horrifying -
I couldn’t look at myself anymore.
Very cool! Therapists sometimes use video cameras to help
their clients see this stuff! Even
up until before she left – I wanted to control where she was going. I
thought if she returned home than she might realize how good we had it
here. This was only 20 days ago! I feel so absurd and horrible. I don’t
know how I didn’t see this clearly. I get sick to my stomach everyday
thinking about it. I have been told be the group that dealing with it
is part of the process. It hurts bad – but I cant imagine how bad it is
for her.
Again, I like the empathy. Make sure you have empathy for yourself as well.
I am so sorry for what I have done, I'm in the middle of reading
Lundy Bancroft's book - it makes my insides wretch thinking that he is describing me in parts of this book.
Alan This guy is good. Take a look at his website:
http://www.lundybancroft.com/ Submit My wife e-mailed me after
seeing the site and the posts. She said that she was hurt that I wasn't
honest enough with what I have done to her. Ever since she left I have
been keeping a list each time I recall or am reminded of my horrible
abusive behaviour. It is a really long list so I don't know if it will
post - but I feel I need to admit these horrible things. Tomorrow will
be a new year and I would like to remind myself of these atrocities so
that I never do them again.
What I did to her
• Made fun of her for not wanting to play for points – a power over
attitude
• Everything I said up until now was the wrong way of thinking – I was
always trying to win – I always felt I had the right to be THAT angry
• When planning out life goals I would demand her to let me know where
we are going – every semester it seemed like I was demanding this – as
if I was waiting for her to decide for us and my life was on hold
because of it.
• I became stuck on verbage and angry when she said words she didn’t
mean
• my wife asked a few times if she was crazy – I immediately thought no
– but actually pondered this fear as coming from her family
• I was always telling her “Your not listening to me” – this was a
manipulation to let her know that what she was telling herself was
false – incidentally I always said this to my mother growing up
• my wife would feel inadequate when she cried – when she was young her
father told her it was wrong – I started telling her she is crying too
much
• I remember my wife getting upset because we were fighting in the car
and then I had to “turn it off” because a student was approaching –
this became fake
• If I was angry – I sometimes gave her looks or became frustrated with
her in public – this must have been totally embarrassing for her –
especially if she thought other people were watching – how horrible
this must have been
• When everything was fine with her I might start in on something and
come out of nowhere – this must have totally taken her by surprise –
shocked her and continued to damage her system
• Sometimes shell ask me what's wrong and instead of engaging with her
– Ill just say “Its too complicated “ and Ill say it really short, and
cut off any continued conversation – I see now how much that would hurt
- and how conceited that was
• I asked her to be in control of the budget and then when she started
doing it – as soon as she had a question I would get angry and
frustrated that she doesn’t know – this would cause her to not want to
do it anymore
• When she would ask if we could buy something – in the past I would
just buy it and say no problem – lately every time she asks I get upset
because I don’t want the responsibility of making that decision – I
would rather her be in charge of the finances so she wouldn’t have to
ask my permission
• I remember if I was in a bad mood – jumping on her when she asked an
innocent question – like “can I help” – I cant believe how many times I
beat her down with words – this is horrible
• I remember often that I would get more upset when she would
“rebuttle” what I am talking about – this would cause me to get angrier
and want to continue arguing – I wonder if my advice to her was
actually right – if she would not stoop to my reality then there would
be nothing for me to continue my ranting about
• When we were walking home from the a bar – she was expressing to me
that she didn’t get a good sense that this friend was a good man to his
family. Rather than respecting my wife’s opinion I tried to convince
her that she was wrong and was being judgmental. This was also after
she didn’t even want to be at the party in the first place.
• Not giving my wife respect enough to share Christmas in our house -
for some stupid reason that I felt uncomfortable with a holiday I
didn't grow up with
• I was constantly impatient – if she was taking to long in the
bathroom and I wanted to start the DVD – I would say ““Im starting the
DVD without you…” Getting ready for work would always be so stressful.
“where’s my keys, wallet etc.” “Hurry were going to be late” “I guess
its too late for breakfast ( almost as if it was her fault)
• WITHHOLDING – not sharing or conversing with your partner – I thought
I shared with her? – sometimes I would have a lot on my mind and be
thinking about what I was going to say next – OR want to jump in on the
conversation and not have the patience of letting her finish
• Sometimes when I would yell I would go over and shut the window –
this shows that part of me did know that I was doing something wrong
that nobody else should hear
• I controlled every decision – up until the flight home – I didn’t
want her to go to her friends in fear that she would become taken away
by their religion – I felt safer with her parents – but at the same
time thought that she would feel comfortable and be able to remember
the good in us. – I always wanted to be in control – I don’t want it
anymore – I give up all control of everybody from now on
• When I would be yelling I would try so hard to get my “point” across
that I would continually repeat myself – by the end she would be so
exhausted that she would just nod her head and say OK – the look in her
face was that of a worn down woman – I did this to her – then I would
get angry that she was feeling this way because I didn’t think I could
do that to someone – so I immediately thought – no your thinking about
it wrong ! It was bad - really bad
• I said I loved her but didn't treat her with love
• Sometimes I would call her and ask her what she is doing – if she
didn’t sound like she was working on something I would get annoyed that
I have to work so hard and she could go for walks, talk on the phone
etc. I never gave her enough equality and respect that she can make her
own decisions of how to spend her time.
• I would become frustrated when she was on the phone – I really was
threatened when she want giving me the attention
• Making my wife feel like this “There were many times that I drove
with you in the car, you yelling at me .(even before school).. I had to
stop talking because I was in shock. I cried.. and you never cared
enough to notice. It was all about your control. No kidding I wanted to
die. My 'best friend' was silently killing me.- toxic
• I was angry too many times – too often – sometimes several times a
month – even several times a day
• We didn’t have fights – they were attacks – from me – a few times it
would get so bad that my wife would be hyperventilating – she says she
felt like dying – why didn’t I do anything about it?
• Not cherishing my wife like I promised in our vows
• She mentioned abuse 5 years ago – it was an ugly word – I didn’t take
it seriously – we could have seen it then and stopped it - why didn’t I
see it? It took my wife leaving to actually see it – that is so
pathetic
• Watching my wife hurt – stripping her spirit, soul, dignity, ego, -
all from the sound of my yelling
• Yelling at my wife while she was trying her best to find us a house
to rent – all I could think about was me – and the stress of my job –
and not giving her the respect to make her own decisions
• Nagging her in the kitchen – when she painted – when she didn’t paint
– always had to say something to bring her down
• Not respecting her morals to do the best she could no matter what.
• Having a terrible attitude
• Being a bully
• Not treating her as an equal
• Yelling at my wife two nights before our wedding day
• Calling her “too sensitive”
• Telling her what to say on the phone
This behaviour is disgusting. I will NEVER repeat these mistakes for as
long as I shall live. Alan
EXCELLENT! Here's an exercise for you: Go back to each
point you made. Figure out how you would handle the situation now - knowing what
you know now. Take your time with this and pay attention to your thoughts and
feelings, especially what resentments pop. Find a way to log all this. By the
way, it's OK to have anger and the resentments. Feel it; don't deny it. Most of
your anger will "old stuff." But sit with it and you will find that some of it
will be valid and based on the current situation. Try to distinguish between the
two. Current-day anger is a healthy internal signal. You will need to learn how
to use that information to assert yourself in healthy ways (vs. acting out
behaviorally).
Submit Alan, I am exhausted reading
your last e-mail, because I feel the exasperation your wife felt. I
love reading your posts. I am constantly striving for the "why" in my
husband. Tonight is New Years eve and my husband went to bed screaming
because the garbage wasn't taken out and I should have eaten the left
overs. He tries to control every aspect of our lives and if he can't
control us (myself and two children) he yells to gain control. My son
(12) went to bed tonight and I said, "Happy New Year" and he said, "how
can it be happy with dad yelling". This was heart wrenching and a wake
up call for me. I have been married to him for 15 years and he has been
abusive verbally for all of them. I sat crying because it is New Years
Eve and I am sitting alone in a secluded world. He chases people away
with his anger and we don't invite people over because he embarrasses
us with yelling or rude comments. Friends eventually stop calling or
visiting. I left him once and he did get anger management counseling.
He is back to his old self. He feels he has every right to act in such
a way. I am intrigued with your posts, because you I really want to
know - can you honestly say you had "no idea" you acted so badly at the
time? I want to understand his mind. I can honestly say I am
emotionally divorced and it is only a matter of time before I take the
same steps as your wife did. I for whatever reason have a tiny shred of
fight in me to save our marriage. I now call him on his behaviors and
call it as I see it. I am brutally honest with the kids regarding his
behavior and make no excuses for him. They need to know it is wrong.
They are now confronting him lovingly as well. If he does not see the
truth soon, we will have to give up on him. Maybe that is the only way
he will really believe it. Happy New Year! LuAnn Submit LuAnn
I am terribly sorry for what you are going through. It must be so
frightening for you – especially for your children. As I read more
about verbal/emotional abuse I get so scared as to where it might have
gone if my wife hadn’t had the courage to take such a giant step. I
also have to correct myself from a previous e-mail. My wife pointed out
this to me. I said I started to realize what it was when she said
“abuse”. In fact it took her leaving AND saying it was “abuse” for me
to realize the depth of it all and how serious it really was. She
reminded me that she brought up “abuse” about 5 years ago when she was
working for a therapist. When she told me I did remember her saying
that and not thinking there could be any way that that was us. I feel
so angry towards my attitude for not doing anything about it. I am
ashamed of what I didn’t see.
This is my reality and the answer I can give you. I don’t know about
your husband, but I am in a state of shock right now. It is if a
floodgate has opened up and I am seeing face to face what I have done.
My wife’s epiphany allowed her to see how horrible my
behaviour/attitude was. I am glad she kept communicating with me – or
else I would still be thinking that she just had a “breakdown”. I can
tell you honestly that I had no idea how severe my behaviour was. I
really only thought – “well this is how we argue”. I come from a family
where yelling is the norm and no one openly cherishes their wife in the
way we should. I never even considered her feelings – I thought I did –
but now I realize I was only considering how I thought she would feel.
All the decisions I would make were about how I saw it – it was all
control. And I think when you're living in that reality, you believe it
to be true!. God – if I could have only stopped for one second –
actually watched my wife crying, trembling sometimes, I would have
possibly realized – HEY –THIS IS VERY WRONG _ STOP IT NOW! NEVER DO IT
AGAIN! Unfortunately that never happened. So I am paying the
consequences for not waking up before she did.
It doesn’t sound like your husband is willing to change – if he has
already gone though an anger management program, and you are constantly
setting your boundaries – matter of factly with him and not
“entertaining” his reality, then I don’t see anything else you can do.
I think this should be advice more from a Dr. though. I assume you guys
are going to marriage counseling?
Hope that helps?
Alan
Submit I am brutally honest with the
kids regarding his behavior and make no excuses for him. They need to
know it is wrong. They are now confronting him lovingly as well. If he
does not see the truth soon, we will have to give up on him. Maybe that
is the only way he will really believe it. Happy New Year! LuAnn
LuAnn why don't you give your kids a real new years and open your phone
book and call the nearest Domestic violence Center and get your kids
away from him. The only thing you are teaching your kids by staying is
how to be abusive themselves!!!!!!!!!
Submit Alan-
3 months ago, I left my wife of 24 years, taking our teenager daughter
with me.
My daughter and I had both put up with years of control, and verbal and
emotional abuse, and neglect. Years of marriage counseling, and
psychiatric and spiritual help did nothing to change her behavior. I
was very blunt about the consequences. I told her in every possible way
that we would leave unless she stopped. When we finally left, she acted
like it was a shock, and she didn't see it coming.
While we are in the process of the divorce, she keeps trying to
convince me to reconsider. What she doesn't even see, is that she is
using the same tactics of control and manipulation to try and get me to
reconsider. So now, I don't even take her calls.
Please don't make this mistake in your situation. If you really can
change, and are willing to eat dirt (Gee, I don't see it as "eating dirt." More like owning
your stuff!) and
get help, and she is willing to come back, that's great. But don't try
to talk her into it. All you can do is make the changes you need for
yourself, whether or not it wins her back. If she sees the changes, and
comes back because it's her idea, then you might have a shot.
But be prepared that it may not happen. Once someone is fed up enough
to leave, well, she could be like me... past the point of no return.
I hope for the best for both of you; as individuals first of all. You
are on the right track by facing the hard truth of your behavior. You
have to come to a place of peace within yourself before you can have a
peaceful relationship with anyone else. Good luck! :) Jef
Submit Alan,
I am glad you are in enough pain to want to understand what your
behavior has done to your wife and your marriage. You can work things
out if you will work hard in counseling and believe what you hear. Your
actions will speak louder than your words if your wife see's that you
are truly trying to understand your behavior and its affects on your
wife. Abuse does kill the spirit of a person. Find out what happened in
your childhood that is keeping you in this need to control. My ex
abused me for 23 years, very covertly. I had no idea until divorce that
I was experiencing so many physical and emotional affects of this
abuse. Then I watched my daughter experience young abusive men in her
life, typical in marriages where she watched how I was treated and I
did not have appropriate boundaries. She and I are both in counseling
and it does work. You have to believe what the experts tell you about
yourself and the abusive behavior. It may be too late but you will
learn and become more in tune with your behavior which will lead you to
a very rich relationship even if it will not be your current wife. She
has her own work to do, too, so that she doesn't attract another abuser
in her life. You see, we all have work to do in the abusive
relationships. There is some reason why we stay in the abuse.
Not a good thing. I hope you will make a good commitment to counseling;
3-5 years.
You will be glad you did. My ex still today does not take any
responsibility for his abusive nature. He's is just the "nice guy", and
as far as he was concerned I was so lucky to have him in my life. Wont
even do the work for his daughter's sake. Really sad. Respect yourself
enough to get the help. Take care! Submit Alan,
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I am in a similar
situation I believe. Although my Wife hasn't yet left, she is
struggling to deal with her co-dependency. We co-habitate now, a far
cry from the marriage we once had. I owe most of the blame to my angry,
controlling behavior. I am just starting to realize that I am the
"causer" of most of our issues. I have a few issues that are different
from yours however the overall scope is very similar, and I want to
find ways to deal with these issues and learn to accept me and her for
who we are and allow u to work in unison and improving ourselves, thus
improving our relationship, if it isn't already too late. It seems that
this is a very common problem and I am hoping to receive information
and resources that will help me to understand these habits and how to
deal with and grow away from them. I hope I am not asking too much of
any of you and hope that the more educated of you is able to offer
sincere help. I really want to give my Wife the husband she deserves.
Thanks,
Greg H Submit Hello Alan,
Glad to read your words and glad for your wife finally, to find the
voice where you can hear her words too.
I had to read your letter deeply because your situation is similar to
mine and my husbands, (in the timeframe anyhow.) He and I had married
this last March and have been together off and on 8 years. However, we
are seeking separate counseling and even though I have a separate
apartment he is still controlling by not giving me the time to breath
that I so desperately need.
Because of his lack of allowing me the freedom to heal and the space to
heal and to give me time to build trust for him again, I am in contact
with a divorce lawyer. Even though he is in counseling and I want to
believe him, his actions speak louder than words.
I would like to encourage you to continue to allow your wife her space
and for her to explore her own reality without any advice or
discouragement from yourself. It really sounds that you are in a place
of respect, (although hard on yourself, my husband is brutally hard on
himself too yet, he will not stop asking me to just basically 'erase'
it and give him a clean slate). I wish you the best in building trust
with your wife and even if you both end up separate truly do consider
what you are trying to do as elevating both her and you to a much
healthier place.
Alan, thank you for sharing and thank you also for allowing me to
respond as this was helpful for me very much. Good luck to your wife
also.
J. Submit Greg,
My wife leaving was the hardest thing in the world for me to accept. I
had no choice and if I did I probably would have asked her to stay to
work it out. I don’t know how that would have turned out, however, I do
know that the distance that we have has been a blessing in disguise. I
didn’t clearly see how much hurt my wife was in until she was able to
get her own space. All the emotions came out – hurt, anger, fear, pain
– as she remembered every incident – she told me in whatever way
possible ( phone calls, e-mails – and believe me they aren’t fun to
endure – but it was much worse for her to experience it over the past 8
years). I can tell you it hurt more than anything in my life, but I am
so lucky to have a wife like her to share her experience with me. If she left and never said a word I would
be totally lost, and probably in denial right now thinking that it was
just a “breakdown”. I “woke up” ever since I took the “abuse”
seriously. I have learned/read more in the past 18 days than I thought
I could – It became a full time job to understand what I have done. All
the information is out there Greg – go after it – read Dr. Irene’s
pages and her book recommendations. They are helping immensely!
Although the pain of this loss will not go away – I feel a renewed
strength with this knowledge. I know I can change it with time and
patience. In the grand scope of our lives a few years is nothing to
turn me into a better person! Find a counselor to help guide you and
read, read, read ( take lots of notes to – your studying to get your
life back! Work hard!)
PS –Last night my wife called to let me know she wasn't angry - mostly
hurt – her emotional scars are deep – hearing her voice again fuelled
me to work hard for the entire year of 2006! I will become a better
person.
Alan :) Submit J – I don’t know if you wanted
a response so ignore if you don’t. The timeframe is really close. We
were married in July! And we have been together for 9 years!
I cant tell you how your husband thinks, but I can try and give some
perspective of how I thought. The idea that I was being controlling
didn’t come easy to me. It’s ridiculous when I look at it now because
it was so obvious. At the time however, I was only stuck on what I
wanted. Not consciously though. See, I thought I was a ‘good guy’ and
looking out for the best interest of my wife: making sure our lunches
were ready in the morning, reminding her constantly about stuff, paying
attention to bills and bank statements, planning our trips, choosing
the movies, cooking OR watching her cook if I couldn’t. To me it was my “way of caring” – now that my eyes have opened - total crap!
:) I was being my mother. A little of my
brother too. I was youngest of three boys and always was watched, told
what to do and often a scapegoat. As I educate myself I am starting to
recognize the patterns and it makes it easy to see where I was totally
wrong and allows me to clearly see how to fix it. After talking to my
therapist today we agreed that it would take some time to eradicate my
behaviours as I have been used to them for so many years ( and grew up
in the same environment). However it is possible and that’s what will
keep me going to succeed.
Point of all this I guess is – maybe the light switch hasn’t gone off
in your husband yet. It seems he is doing the right things, therapist,
working hard – but who knows what the therapist is telling him.
Dr.Irene’s website was an eye opener for me. Reading the experts take
gave me an understanding on what my wife was going through AND what I
was doing. It made it human and I could accept that. Reading the
stories from other experiences let me understand that our situation
wasn’t the only one. Along with the intense reading, note taking and
therapy it all started to click.
I don’t know if this helps, but maybe your husband is trying but just
not finding the right resources.. OR maybe he really doesn’t want to
succeed ( or doesn’t know what the stakes are)
Happy New Year
Alan
Submit Alan,
Hi again, I'm the one that brought up the constant blaming before. I
can see from your responses that you are really trying and I am very
proud of you for that. You seem to be getting a lot of insight into
this and it must be very overwhelming for you at this point. The only
way though to make a change is constant awareness. A trip to the
therapist every 2 weeks isn't going to do it. It needs to be something
you do daily. So far, you are doing the work. I really do hope you keep
it up. A lot of us here have given up any hopes for the marriage, but
that does not stop us from trying to help someone that wants to change.
I just thought that once in awhile you might need a little
encouragement.
Amy Submit I sure wish my husband would come to this realization! No hope for that, as far as I can see. TK Submit I just finished reading Dr. Irene's recommendation
Why Does He Do That? by
Lundy Bancroft. I took many notes and recognized where I could apply my
own behaviours at times. However I was confused about a few things. He
mentions that abusers have tactics and seldom change - if I understood
him right than all my abuse was intentional. At the time, your abuse was intentional in that it
accomplished its purpose of shifting blame, etc. Whether or not you were
aware of it is another story. Furthermore, recognize that not all abusers
are the same. The psychological components vary and the severity of those
components vary. We don't yet understand who changes and who doesn't, let alone
how to classify/diagnose the abuser, though the direction you're going in tells
me you are on excellent footing and have the capacity to change. Go for it!
I understand what I have done and see the
damage and I am taking responsibility for it. I am struggling with the
notion that I abused my wife intentionally. Although, no one else was
making me do it - I always saw it as "reacting" - (very poorly) and not
seeing how she felt. I don't remember thinking about how I was going to
abuse her next. Am I understanding this wrong? Yes. Just because it was unconscious/unintentional does
not take away from the fact that you did it and it accomplished its
purpose. You have to take responsibility for that and not get caught up
here. Don't judge; you did the best you knew how to do at the time. He also mentions that abusers rarely change - this scares me.
Rarely change is different from never change. That abusers
rarely change is what the research suggests, but then again, we don't have
nearly enough research in this relatively new field, nor do we know what type of
abuser changes and doesn't change, so don't go there. You ARE changing. That's
all you need concern yourself with. I feel I am changing and desperately want
to eradicate any abusive attitude/behaviour that I have. It took me
this long to see everything that I have done to my wife - I am just
worried that if it took me this long, then part of me is still blocking
my ability to change without me knowing it - how can I tell?
I promise you that is happening; it is a normal
part of the process. Being mindful of yourself will help you uncover this, as
will feedback from your therapist, your wife, and anybody else who you've
behaved poorly towards. Bancroft
also writes " I have yet to meet an abuser who has made any meaningful
and lasting changes in his behaviour toward female partners through
therapy - when he is finished he will be a happy, well-adjusted ABUSER"
he then suggests the only method is an abuser program.
That is his opinion. That's like saying you can't fix
alcoholism without AA, which is simply not true. The reality is that we don't
know enough yet, in my opinion, to make blanket statements. Work this one out
individually with your therapist. I'm having a hard time trusting my own judgments right now.
Excellent! The ground is being shifted from under you; of course you don't trust
your judgments now! That you feel this way is an excellent sign that you
are changing. Excellent! I want
to rid my abusive behaviours - so I guess the abuser program is the
next step. I am in therapy twice a week - should I stop?
No! You talk to your therapist. Even if you do an abuser program,
there is no reason why you can't remain with your therapist. If you continue
working as you have, you may not need a program. Has
anyone had any experience with these programs? I have read that I
should look for an "Emerge-model" or Duluth model program.
Thoughts, Advice?
Alan Advice: print this whole thing out and bring it to
your therapist. Deal with your anxiety and recognize that you don't have to
answer all these questions today - and doing so will be part of your recovery. Submit Alan, I think I think "most
abusers don't change" is intended as a piece of reality for people who
are hoping their partners will change. Also you should take that as
forewarning that change is HARD. Do you want it badly enough to see it
through, no matter how hard it gets? Only you can answer that question.
Most abusers ultimately don't. But you don't have to be like most
abusers. The choice is entirely yours. "The choice is yours..." Yes Alan, it is. And you are
in a great space and direction. You will have doubts; you will have fears, and
it is OK to have them. Feel the feelings, don't react. Things are going well;
there is no reason to jump any guns here even though you may feel like it.
Impulsivity is part of what you want to curb.
Dear Readers, feel free to continue chatting here, or,
of course, take it to the CatBox. Many thanks to each and every one of you for
your great feedback and support of Alan - including those of you who are "tough"
on him! :) May God bless you and yours and may your 2006 be the
best year ever for you and your family. Dr. Irene, January 5, 2006. Submit Alan,
This is not going to be an easy process. You will have these creepy
feelings for a very long time. It is part of the change. You are
wanting relief. The only way to get it, is to do the work. Trust me, I
have been on the other end of the abuse, but I am hear to tell you, the
abuser can be successful and have a fabulous relationship, if he will
commit to the work. It's like trying to diet, you have to stick with it
for years. Stay with your therapist despite the other work that you do.
Keep a balanced life. Find a good male friend to support and encourage
you. One who can truly be honest and loving. Start eating and
exercising, cause this will help release good nurturing to you. You
probably dont have very good self care right now, cause you dont think
you deserve it, but you do.
Make sure your therapist is qualified and skilled in the areas of
abuse. I dont support my ex anymore cause he didnt and doesnt today,
want to see his ways. But, I will support and encourage the abuser, if
I see he truly accepts responsibility. Most people will.
Take care, and keep writing, it will move you forward. Submit Well Thank you again for all
the great comments and advice. Dr. Irene your experience shines! I am
re-reading all of your comments and everyone else’s several times. I am
finding that as I progress – digress – regress - and progress through
this – I am able to look at certain sentences and really start to
understand them and relate to what is happening to me. Logically I
think I understand most of it – but I am starting to notice when it has
effect by the way the words have an impact on me. I think it means I’m
starting to change.
I see my therapist twice a week, chat on the I_am_responsible@yahoo.com
message board several times a day ( they are great – soft that tow
tough lines!) and I am slowly going through all of the book
recommendations. I have started to eat well and exercise. The last
writer picked up on my emptiness – but I am taking care of my body
figuring that it will keep my mind healthy to be able to sort all of
this out. Keeping busy seems to work most of the time. Mornings and
sleep is the worst. I really feel the isolation now. I think the shock
is wearing off and its getting harder and harder to focus. It hurts
badly - worse than I imagined. I am sure this is all part of the
process. I want to call my wife and tell her how sorry I am, tell her
that I am changing and tell her to be here. However, I know I cant do
this. I need to experience this alone for myself and she needs her time
to make her own decisions. It is just hard to be alone.
On the other hand, I am starting to feel scared for the possibility
that my wife may reconsider and come back at some point. More than
anything I want to be with her again, however, I don’t want to be as I
was before. I sense my behaviours changing but I guess I wont know
until I have the relationship to test it in. This gives me fear and
uncertaintly, almost like someone watching a film that is only in
progress and forming an opinion on it.
Im am starting to understand more of the WHY. I am remembering parts of
my growing up more and seeing the patterns develop. I can feel the
angry/resentful kid inside of me. Yesterday I became frustrated at
something – I sat with it for a while and then realized there was
nothing I could do about the situation. However, the heat was still
there. So I tried something new that my therapist recommended–I told
myself that I am 30 years old and that I don’t need to react. The
feeling went away! It was incredible to be able to control this feeling
and not allow it to continue! A little later when I had the space - I
did as Dr. Irene recommended and I told the “kid” that it’s OK that he
was feeling the way he was. I sat with it and cried, and cried some
more. Thank you for the advice – I can tell its working.
Thank you all for your insight and encouragement. I am sorry to hear
that some of you have relationships that are beyond repair. Hopefully
you are finding strength in your own work. Your words and experience
have helped me in more ways than you may know
Sincerely, Alan
Submit Hi Alan,
J here. Clearly after the last few days I can see that there is not
chance left with my husband, at all. He went over the top and his work
with the counselor seems more to have been aimed at being ammunition
for him to continue fighting with me.
Hours on end...Yet, relentless.
He called the other day at 2:45 in the morning, (he knows that I will
answer the phone in my sleep AND, i didn't turn it off). He did a
jekyll and Hyde manuever from his earlier conversation which had
started off nicely but ended with him manipulating the heck out of me.
Now I can clearly see how innappropriate he was and he escelated to the
point where I have gone true No CONTACT. I got a police escort to get
the last of my things out of our apartment. I do not know how he got
the landlords to lock me out, (the police said that was a major no no
and that it was my address and they cannot lock me out). Yet, even
though the landlords told me he was crazy and he left them many
messages, they refused to let me in without the police.
Not every abuser who goes to counselling is seeking to truly work on
themselves, Alan, unlike what you are experiencing. Many only do it as
a ruse to keep a connection to their victim and to prolong their
manipulation.
Glad to end his/my cycle.
J, (jennifer)
p.s. best wishes for you and your wife Submit Alan, I was the one who wrote
about eating healthy and working out.
You see, you do need to feel the pain of aloneness, cause you have been
in a relationship that was unhealthy. It doesnt matter which side of
the relationship, abuse or abuser, we all have to go through the same
steps to heal. It is almost the same work for both parties. You do have
to spend alot of time alone, so that you get to know who you really
are. You may even go through some Post Traumatic Shock Syndrome PTSS,
before it is over. It is unbelievealbe that you would find yourself in
this situation but it happens, alot, in relationships, unfortunately.
Our lives are very parallel sometimes. That is why therapists know us
long before we ever hit the counselor chair. They see these patterns of
behaviors all the time. It is actually healing to know that they
already know us, cause they actually can make us feel better that we
arent alone in this madness.
You are not alone, and neither is your wife. I hope she is on this site
and is learning both sides of the abusive relationship. I applaud your
efforts, once again, cause I found this site and tried to get my ex to
see that I dont blame him for his past behavior, I just became privy to
the knowledge that we both had significant childhoods/past experiences
that helped create our unhealthiness. If we both would have done the
work, we probably could have had a fabulous, honest, and open
relationship and been freed up from all of the weight that was on us
long before we realized it.
But I respect that it was going to be too painful for him to uncover
all of those buried hurts/pains so I moved on without him, his choice.
He is not moving forward at all. It is very sad. He is so numbed out,
and it is hurting all of his relationships. Sounds like you are making
a different choice. You have to do your own work. You need to focus on
you and go through all of the stages to recover and heal from this
unfortunate awareness. But day by day you will free yourself up from
the pain. It will be lifelong work, but it gets easier, and you will
slip at times, but keep it up. I have been at it for 4 years. I have
learned, applied and accepted the things I could not change and life
became so much better.
I think I can empathize cause when you describe your feelings, I was
right there, too. I never thought I would ever smile again, or feel
like living fully. But, I am hear to tell you with a lot of work,
honesty and getting real with yourself, you will be amazed where it
will get you. My relationship in my marriage was so painful, I didnt
even want to think about dating or marriage again. I am here to say,
that I am in a healthy relationship today, and it is so completely
different than the codependent,
abusive relationship I was in. It is a choice. Trust me, you want to
experience a good one. I shared my painful story to two 90 year old
neighbors, who were so kind to me, and they just laughed that I thought
life was over. My head and my heart couldn't match up, then. Now I
laugh at myself for believing that life could really be over. Grow from
the experience and commit to the long haul. You will reap what you sow.
Keep getting it out. It is moving you forward. For all of you out there
on both sides, do the work. Just do the work. It pays off. It takes a
while to just get it. You cannot trick this crazy stuff. You have to go
through it and hit it head on. Think spiritually, mentally,
emotionally, and physically. No short cuts. I wish all of you peace.
Make this the best year of your life. It is a choice. Submit Hello,
This post is for the person who responded last, about working out and
exercise and how it is necessary to have alone time.
I do not want to SKIP any steps and probably have a dumb question. Even
though I had been living apart from my husband since the end of August
and have had limited contact with him, our true and final separation
with no contact for good started this Jan 4th. Yes, I feel the pangs of
lonliness and even though they are familiar since these last few months
they are new, (because they are the final ones and I know this.)
Well, I am worried because I am about to adopt a "rescue" cat who had
been abused and abondanded. See, even though I had been considering
adopting a cat since September, (I have been without one for 9 years) I
am a little afraid that this may interfere with my 'alone' time for
recovery. Okay, am I just thinking stupid here? I mean, she is an
adorable 5 year old cat that needs a loving home and someone to spoil
her. I have a nice new apartment and would love to welcome her. I am
trying to be rational here and know that I have longed to adopt a cat
again for some time, and that the time is right, I found her through
the rescue site, met her at the house that is fostering her, met her
foster owners. Basically I also know that as much as I want to offer
her, (especially with the whole abuse bond) I know that the
companionship and sweetness that she will give me is alot, (now I
wonder if I am being selfish). Aggh. Okay, okay, I think it is not
displacing the lonliness but, that it IS a positive way to share my
life and that I am at a place and time in my life where I am especially
prong to appreciate it more than ever. Thanks for reading all this
prattle!
Jennifer B Submit Dr Irene and others,
I am feeling hurt Most of my days since my wife left have been filled
with sorrow and fueled by the need to get better – fix myself and my
attitude and rid my abusive behaviours. The other day while reading
through my wife’s recent e-mails I realized that I was being blamed for
actions that I did not do. Originally, when I read them I passed them
off because I only wanted to listen and hear her hurt and anger.
However, these issues keep coming up and I feel I need to voice myself
in fear that I don’t lose whatever integrity I have left. I don’t know
if this is the right thing to do but I need to voice this concern. My
wife claims that I allowed myself to be a target for other females.
This hurts me deeply. My wife has been the only woman in my life since
we met in college. We spent 2 years apart and for 3 years living
together up until or marriage and now. I have only thought, lived,
breathed and loved one woman since I met her. Even when I was on my own
and had other females proposition me I refused. I only thought of a
life together with my wife ( girlfriend at the time). I made life
altering decisions with her and it made me and brought me to where I am
today. I know she is filled with only hurt from the abuse right now and
I don’t know if I have any business defending anything right now. I can
accept that I had no control over my abusive behaviour towards her –
which she may never get over. It hurts me deeply that she is altering
my values in her pain and I fear that this is helping her to get over
me.
My wife also has a deep resentment for my family. She says we have too
many differences and says now that she always felt this way from the
beginning but never voiced it. She claims that there were people at our
wedding that were only there because they were important people like
Dr’s and Lawer’s – this just isn’t true either. I fear she is taking
this out on me as well. I have no control over other people and how
they choose to be. I wish she would have come clean to tell me
everything that she felt so that I could have had a chance to change or
find a solution. She is looking back at every experience we have ever
had and tarnishing it – this hurts me beyond belief – because I can
look at pictures and video and see she was happy, in love – saying
words to me that she meant at the time. Am I reacting to something I
shouldn’t? I have only been compelled to apologize and work on myself –
these feelings I don’t know what I can do about. She is looking for
divorce papers now and I don’t think there is anything I can do.
Alan Submit Dr Irene and others,
Most of my days since my wife left have been filled with sorrow and
fueled by the need to get better – fix myself and my attitude and rid
my abusive behaviours. The other day while reading through my wife’s
recent e-mails I realized that I was being blamed for actions that I
did not do. Originally, when I read them I passed them off because I
only wanted to listen and hear her hurt and anger. However, these
issues keep coming up and I feel I need to voice myself in fear that I
don’t lose whatever integrity I have left. I don’t know if this is the
right thing to do but I need to voice this concern. My wife claims that
I allowed myself to be a target for other females. This hurts me
deeply. My wife has been the only woman in my life since we met in
college. We spent 2 years apart and for 3 years living together up
until or marriage and now. I have only thought, lived, breathed and
loved one woman since I met her. Even when I was on my own and had
other females proposition me I refused. I only thought of a life
together with my wife ( girlfriend at the time). I made life altering
decisions with her and it made me and brought me to where I am today. I
know she is filled with only hurt from the abuse right now and I don’t
know if I have any business defending anything right now. I can accept
that I had no control over my abusive behaviour towards her – which she
may never get over. It hurts me deeply that she is altering my values
in her pain and I fear that this is helping her to get over me.
My wife also has a deep resentment for my family. She says we have too
many differences and says now that she always felt this way from the
beginning but never voiced it. She claims that there were people at our
wedding that were only there because they were important people like
Dr’s and Lawer’s – this just isn’t true either. I fear she is taking
this out on me as well. I have no control over other people and how
they choose to be. I wish she would have come clean to tell me
everything that she felt so that I could have had a chance to change or
find a solution. She is looking back at every experience we have ever
had and tarnishing it – this hurts me beyond belief – because I can
look at pictures and video and see she was happy, in love – saying
words to me that she meant at the time. Am I reacting to something I
shouldn’t? I have only been compelled to apologize and work on myself –
these feelings I don’t know what I can do about. She is looking for
divorce papers now and I don’t think there is anything I can do.
Submit The previous message is from Alan by the way Submit Hello Alan,
You wrote: "She is looking back at every experience we have ever had
and tarnishing it – this hurts me beyond belief – because I can look at
pictures and video and see she was happy, in love – saying words to me
that she meant at the time. Am I reacting to something I shouldn’t? I
have only been compelled to apologize and work on myself – these
feelings I don’t know what I can do about. She is looking for divorce
papers now and I don’t think there is anything I can do. "
My answer is yes, you can leave her alone and let her control herself
and you control only yourself. Let her work her things out, let her
remember things and allow her HER version of reality wether or not you
agree with it. You claim that she is tarnishing the past...You may not
yet even have the vaguest clue of how hurtful the past really was for
her in the first place. Yes, it is sad and all of that for you but,
(and what I am about to say here is really a big deal) It is not about
you, got it. IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU, (not for her it isn't). Good luck,
try to stop obsessing or focusing on her and how she views your mutual
past, work on yoruself only. Besides, how can you work on yourself if
all you are doing is wondering or worrying about her? Huh? If she is
looking for divorce papers then, well, allow her the freedom to
consider it, (who knows how things will go but, one thing that is
pretty sure, if you panic and try to control her, you will probably
gaurantee that they will proceed in the very manner you are trying to
control them NOT to go). I can only speak from experience because my
husband always wanted to apologize, (for hours on end) and wanted me to
see his version, (for hours) and wanted me to stay and on and on...
Best wishes, Jennifer B. p.s. so what did you expect, a medal? So you
worked on yourself and suffered for a few days or weeks, big deal, keep
doing it for months on end to see how things go and if you can grow, (I
know, sounds harsh)
Submit Thank you Jennifer
It was harsh - but real Thank you for pointing it out and re-inforcing
it. I need to hear it constantly. I really do because it is easay to
fall back into patterns.
What I was trying to get at was not what should I do about her - no
intention right now to control her- but what should I do about these
feelings I have about it. Rather than react to them - by calling,
apologizing, telling her etc. - I wanted to voice it to the group to
get an opinion as to how other people have dealt with these feelings.
Im certainly not looking for a medal - Im trying to find assistance for
the right course because I have gone in the wrong course for the past
30 years!
Thanks for the response Submit Alan,
Divorce is not the issue here. It seems like it is, but it isnt. When
my husband asked for divorce, I gave it to him. It was the most painful
thing I had done in my life, but you cant make someone stay in a
marriage no matter how hard you try to control it. The best thing you
can do is let your ACTIONS demonstrate to her that you are serious
about this and you are going to do the work to become a healthy person
first, then a healthy partner second. You may not even need her in your
life after you have had some time to grow through this unhealthiness.
She may not choose to grow through her pain. Many victims dont want to
change. And, sometimes it really scares them when they see their
partner change cause they had really rather keep it the way it is.
Abuser or victim, it is still a personal choice on what work gets done.
Both are unhealthy people. You are choosing to become healthy. Set her
free. She needs to be free anyway. You need to be free, too. You are in
some bondage to her. Get out from under it. It's always possible that
you may not have as much abusive nature if you are away from someone
who dances with you. Get off the dance floor and learn new steps, and
practice before you go on the dance floor. Trust me, I know exactly
what you are experiencing. Here is the way I felt. It's like waking up
in a different country. You look around and find out that everyone you
thought you knew is now speaking a different language and you have to
learn the language all over again. Well you are learning a new
language, the language of being a healthy individual. It's a gift you
give yourself, then others. Dont dwell on the divorce. There is always
re-marriage. Anyone can re-marry at anytime both parties want to. There
really is no real finality with divorce. No more than one person
choosing to leave another and not going back. My ex was not going to
come back. Never, he said. I wanted him to love me enough to come back.
That is the unhealthiness talking. Keep a journal.
Right down your feelings and express your desire for her to come back
or repair the relationship, but dont give it to her. Just keep a record
of your feelings and your thoughts about her. Does she read the post on
this site?????? If so, will she post??? I wish, so that I could write
to her.
You dont know how many of us will support the abuser, who owns his
stuff, cause most abusers dont. They will let you do all the work for
years and still bumble along with their kids, their friends and act so
innocent about their abusive nature. The scariest thing is that alot of
abusers will never "get" that they were abusers. They will never see
it. Therapist dont even want to work with them, cause they know the
outcome is almost nil. The therapist spend alot of time trying to help
the victim see that it isnt going to happen. They have to move the
victim forward. Magical thinking. You can be the greatest person in the
world but the abuser is never going to let you be the greatest person
in the world.
I am so glad that you keep writing and you havent given up. Most would
by now. Keep going. You will be so glad you did. And Jennifer, get the
Cat. Animals are a man's best friend. They wont hinder you spending
time alone and getting with your feelings. That cat wont turn into a
person. They are there to encourage and support your growth. They will
heal your soul, where your soul has been wounded. It's a healthy
dependent care. That's okay. Submit Thank you for the words - to
the last person - I dont know your name
I appreciate the sentiment
"Divorce is not final" - thinking about it that way helps. I know I
cant hold onto her - slowly every day Im letting her go bit by bit. Its
hard to hold onto when I can feel and hear her wanting to be let go as
well. Its sudden and shocking and thats what makes it hard. Seeing the
results of my own behaviour makes it unbearable at times - this thought
I'll probably hold onto longer - as it becomes a driving force for me
to never repeat it. Its hard to look at yourself in the mirror. My
understanding of it helps it become a tangible thing that I can grab
hold of and deal with. All of the comments on this site, the chat group
and the professionals have been more help than I can thank you all for.
I will keep going - I wont allow anyone else to hurt by my lack of
control of my behaviour.
Alan Submit Hi Alan,
What do you do abou those feelings? You feel them, deal with them and
feel through them and keep claiming 100% responsibility for them, they
are all yours and no one elses. You are the creator of those feelings
and the sole owner. Also, remember that you create your feelings based
on what you think, which means that you have control over your own
feelings. So, again, deal with them and if they are too much, share
them with your counselor and ask for his/her professional opinion.
Jennifer B Submit Hi again to Alan and to the
wonderful advice person,
This thread is helping me as well and I thank you both. I called the
cat's foster parents and the shelter that housed her yesterday and
worked out some details and adopted her last night! I had to drive
about 45 minutes with her in the car and was totally surprised by how
good she was. Cats normally hate the car. All she did was give me a few
mrawls to let me know how indignant it all was but, then rode like a
queen for the next 40 minutes. What a good girl! I found out that she
has had a tough string of bad luck with about 6 different homes in her
5 short years. Her last home truly loved her but, thought she would be
happiest as a solo cat and not with 4 kitty roomates. She is still
settling in as its been less than 12 hours but, when I woke up this
morning and looked around for her she was sleeping underneath my bed,
directly under where I was sleeping. Since she has been through so much
in her life I know it will take time before she trusts but, I am happy
to start this process with her. I mean, I would much, much rather
aquiesce to a formerly abused cat who needs a loving home than to an
abusive human who just needs someone to dance with. I don't do that
dance anymore, I am going to learn some new steps and am not even
concerned about taking the floor! Thank you, Jennifer B Submit Alan,
Unfortuately, we all say things and turn things, aroung and into, what
makes us feel better. Let her say what she needs to say. Your actions
will still speak volumes about who you are. She is angry, hurt, sad and
is just processing like you are. It doesnt last forever. I can look
back and laugh at so much, now. When you get through the pain and begin
to heal or recover, you will see truth you never wanted or could see.
My ex and I are back where we were before we started dating. I told him
the other day that we just never should have crossed the coffee table,
but I was glad that we did cause we have two incredible kids that came
from our relationship, healthy or unhealthy. Now we are teaching them
early to pay attention to some things before they get too heavy into
early relationships that are serious. He still doesnt see his part, but
he figures I am not dumb so even though he cant see it, he knows there
was something wrong. I am in a very healthy, satisfying in every way
relationship, and I can truly see the difference. My counselor told me,
one day, I would have this great experience and it would really ring
true the poor relationship I was in. I was so glazed over with pain
when he would say that, cause I thought I had the best thing and lost
it. Duh!!
We are always in the learning curve. Does she read the post??? Have an
interest in the site, at all????
Jennifer, you go girl, with your cat. You will get on that dance floor
again. You do it, in and on your own time. I bet it will be a great
dance.
I never thought I would dance again, but the last 6 months have proven
to be a very good dance. I have had so many things happen that relate
to what both of you are going through. I feel all of your pains, pangs,
and fears. But I am hear to say, once again, do the work and you will
reap what you so. As a good ole friend of mine use to say, "If you will
do this, I will dance at your wedding." Well, guys, if you will keep
doing your work, I will dance at your wedding. Do you go on the boards?
I havent quite figured out how to do it. Too busy to sit and figure it
out. Any advice??? I always forget to sign my name, so to take the
mystery away, let me introduce myself as, Val. If you have any
questions, I will try and tell you what I have learned through the mega
resources I have on my shelf. I too, took this stuff very seriously,
and have a whole library committed to resources. They are abundant. Dr.
Irene puts in all in a nutshell and speaks on both sides of the issue.
That really helps. Doc, if you are listening, thanks, you have helped
me more than you know. I've been on the site for over a couple of
years, I think. Time flies even when it isnt so fun. Thanks for the
banter. It helps heal the spirit. Val
Submit Hello Val,
Thank you and also thank you to Alan for sharing your thread with me,
(as your posts and responses back to mine were very helpful). Val, just
this afternoon I was really surprised by some of the waves of grief I
felt. These were as strong as when I first realized that my husband was
abusing me and that my dream was a nightmare. You wrote, "cause I
thought I had the best thing and lost it. Duh!!" Tonight I was having a
little kitty snuggle and I was crying over what I thought I lost,
(which in reality where things that I really never had). What I was
grieving were the brief honeymoon time when I first moved in with him,
after 7 years of off an on and then that 8 months living together where
everything was hopes for the future. It was not rosy but, it was
"hopeful", this is one of the things I think I may be grieving. I know
it will get better but, for now, I am "going" through it. Jennifer B Submit Hi Val , Hi Jennifer B
Thanks for sharing your stories and advice
In my wife’s heart right now she thinks we were never right and says I
never loved her. This kills me more than anything. I had a behaviour
that recurred too many times and it overshadows everything. I messed up
horribly – I didn’t pay attention. I think about it now and there is
such a shift. I m mindful of every word I say now – every thought I
think. I see how little time it takes to just be in the present moment
rather than always thinking about what we need for the end of the
month, next paycheck, end of the year, our lives etc. Its like looking
back at a childhood and saying – I cant believe I thought those things
or acted that way. It hurts to see who I was – just 26 days ago. Crazy
to see it so differently in such a short time. The steps you guys have
taken and my wife are so necessary – though painful it forces clarity.
I don’t know if my wife is reading the posts. I told her about it but
right now everything I tell her is rejected so I doubt it. Im so sorry
for what I have done. Im sorry for anyone there who has been hurt by
their best friend/closest intimate other. I can see how it can feel so
horrible the trust she gave me and now feeling that I threw it all
away. I will be forever learning to see properly. My eyes were fogged
over by selfishness and what I thought was the right way to be.
Yes Val I go on the boards. If you go to DR. Irene’s page – http://drirene.com/support_lists.htm
there are three to choose from. I too have gotten a little confused in
the catbox. Not sure where to post. The I_am_responsible chat group is
great. Very supportive but very real. Give it a try.
Alan
Submit The other day I had a
conversation with my wife. It was sthe first time we both were able to
talk since she left 29 days ago. We listened to eachother, really
listened. I was using all of the tools that I have been taught by this
site and books and I found myself engaging and connecting in ways that
I never have before. I could hear my wife relax some, and although
there is still lots of hurt we were able to share and learn from
eachothers experiences and what we have learned over the past month.
I learned a lot from her and appreciate her opening up to me. I dont
think she is able to forgive at this point however, she was able to
listen and engage and that was wonderful to me.
When I woke up this morning I felt a little bit different and Im a
little bit nervous about it. I thought of life with my wife again - I
felt comforted and filled with warmth and smiles. Then I thought about
life without her and I didnt have the same usual response of sickness
and fear. This worries me, I am scared that I am becoming a little
complacent over her decision to return or not to. As if either way I
could deal with. Does this mean I am getting over her? It feels much
too soon.
Advice? Alan Submit Good Grief Alan,
It has only been 29 days and you are feeling the NEED for her to
forgive you? Allow her time to greive, process and have HER time!
Goodness' sakes, it is not about YOU, (for her). Jennifer B Submit Jennifer
Its a difficult thing to live alone for 30 days straight after 8 years
of companionship. Although it doesnt seem like much 30 days of being
face to face with your own horrible behaviours and hearing only pain
from my wife whom I thought I was loving with all my heart is the most
difficult thing I have ever had to contend with. I guess it would have
been easy to deny everything and resent her but I could not. I
appreciate your perspective, I really do - I think about my wife
everyday and talk and apologize my heart out and continue to work on
myself. It is a difficult thing when you are by yourself for hours on
end, only dealing with the mistakes you have made, not to think about
yourself. Im not feeling sorry for myself its just what is - and Im
trying my hardest to forgive myself.
My wife is hurting badly. She has been hurting for 8 years and kept it
quiet. I cant imagine the suffering she has gone through. I am the
cause of her suffering for 8 YEARS! if that isnt enough to beat oneself
down to the ground I dont know what is. Its painful and I cant deny
that. Im trying to cope - and you say its not about me but I assure you
its happening to me. I am using this and other groups to express myself
because I have been on the wrong path for too long.
I appreciate your candor to re-direct me but I am a human being.
PS - In the previous e-mail I asked if I was getting over her - what I
meant was - am I learning to cope without her? Alan Submit Jennifer
I re-read my previous e-mail. I think I reacted there. It must have
read as aggression towards you and I apologize. You are right I am
wanting forgiveness and I should not expect it too soon - or at all for
that matter. I'm in a whirlwind of doubt and Im constantly re-thinking
my thoughts. Dont stop harping on me. I cant imagine how you must feel
hearing an abuser talk about themself.
Alan Submit Alan,
I dont see you only thinking about yourself. I see you caring about
your wife's feelings. I was on the abused side for 23+ years and I
still had to take responsibility for my own actions. If you are truly a
genuine, caring person, your wife will see it. She has to give you time
to work on you, and she has to work on herself. It isnt all about you.
She has to do and take some of the responsibility. You say you are
hurting, you've made mistakes. We all do. We are human and very
fallible. So, beating yourself up isnt going to solve anything but take
you down to more depression. Just go to work on your inner self and try
and look realistically from childhood on, where you were wounded? What
was your family circustances and are you modeling someone else's
behavior that was taught to you? My husband's father was a verbal,
physical abuser and an alcoholic. My husband witnessed alot of horrible
things. All of the kids were affected by it. My husband was an abuser
in a covert way, very covert. He probably didnt want to be like his dad
so he thought he wasnt cause it didnt look like the same way he saw his
dad treat his mother. It was covert, not overt. He was probably in pain
more than the rest of the siblings cause he always acted so macho and
declared he scathed by and was above it all. Well guess what?? He
wasnt. I have been living with a very dry drunk all this time and didnt
realize it. He didnt drink alot.
I believed he had scathed by it to. But, no, he didnt. When I started
counseling for codependent behaviors, I had to come clean that my dad
was a verbal abuser to my mother and myself. I have now put boundaries
in place, but I dont blame my dad for having them. I cant change him
but I can point out when his behavior is not acceptable to me and leave
the room or house when I am there. Victims have alot of work to do, as
well. I have been at it with a very good therapist and it will bring
you a lot of joy. You will change, if you do the work. You will slip. I
do every day.
We all do, so dont go a thinking you are so bad you cant redeem
yourself. You can and you will. Your wife does need alot of time. Even
if you two were to stay together it can take up to 5 or so years to
reap the benefits of change. Stick with it. If your wife cares enough,
she will seek the other side and learn how to have good boundaries. It
doesnt excuse the behavior on your part, but each party has 50% of the
relationship, no matter what. Besides, we all can go down into self
pity, feel a little pain, and grieve. Abusers get to grieve, too. It is
a painful wakeup call. It will move you forward. It's all part of the
growth to maturity and acceptance. You will become free and experience
the joy of real freedom one day. Keep getting it out. I am reaping some
of the greatest benefits of my work. It took a lot of time to get
there. But I see many people struggling today and they dont want to see
their behaviors or spend the time doing the work. Too lazy. So they get
what they get each day. Work on empowerment. Alan, healthy balance.
Exercise, nutrition, counseling, a good day at the office, a little
spiritual meditation. Find your inner spirit, and let the spirit move
you, too. We all are loveable, deserve love and when we fall, and we
will, we need to remember the higher power is working more than we
know. Thank goodness. It does feel kind of lonely but you know what, we
have to learn to be good and single, alone and fulfilled before we can
have a good relationship with another person.
So work from that premise. I love my alone time and it isnt lonely.
Keep pushing even when that big ole rock isnt moving. All you need to
do is push. Take care! Submit I dont know if people are
reading these posts anymore.
Some of you recommended that my wife post her thoughts. I have to say
that she probably will not and this is my fault. She showed me once
again how I did not think about her and only myself.
I encouraged my wife to post and she almost did - just when she built
up some trust I shattered it once again. I sent this link to my family
for the intention that they see what I have done to my wife so they can
understand why she had to leave. Unfortunately I failed to see the
violation of her privacy. On one of my posts I let her feeling be known
and some of them were regarding my family. She did not ask me to do
this. I cant believe I didnt think about this but this is my pattern. I
have violated her rights to privacy and I am truely sorry for this. I
can see how horrified she would feel This is a difficult road. Im
trying to stay on course but the ground is shakey.
Alan Submit Alan,
She has to understand where you are coming from. Did she know you were
on this site. The site explains both sides. She has to try and
understand the patterns of behavior and allow time on both sides to
process. I am sure she is angry. I was angry too. I had to learn and
learn some more.
It will be hard for her to understand at first, but she needs to know
that there are alot of us out there who's spouses didnt acknowledge
their behavior. I wish she would post, but you havent violated her
privacy. No one knows who you are. You are a parallel couple who are
dealing with an epidemic of relationships. You are not the only ones
dealing with this. She has to understand that eventually. Sure, her
family is going to take sides but you know what? Mine stayed neutral
and let us work it out. Stop beating yourself up over every little
thing. I believe you are trying. That is what matters. You are going to
make mistakes. Keep working at it. She will see in time, your truth and
forgiveness. It will take some time. I am still here with you, if you
need support. I kick myself in the rear alot. You just will. Tell her
to post. We dont know her. Vent it out. Val Submit Alan,
I read your letter because I want to learn about what motivated my
abusive ex husband. I wanted to know if my abusive ex husband had a
kernel of awareness of how much I loved him and how confusing and
destructive his abuse was to me. If he ever really saw me for who I am.
I certainly cherished the good parts of him. Because my experince and
your wife's are very similar, our responses to the situation are
similar...the thing I would like recovering abusers to know is that no,
trust in you agian is not likely. Why? because when the realization
comes that we have been abused for the duration of the relationship,
that we have been manipulated and controlled; it becomes impossible to
distinguish between that and genuine happy memories. Abuse confounds
all attempts to understand our past with the abuser and it remains
frozen in turmoil. The past actually changes, and that is mind blowing
and soul shattering. What was control and what was manipulation? Did he
really love me? Is he Capable of love? That is my real question for Dr.
Irene. Are abusive people capable of love? Or was I simply an object to
use as a punching bag? An object to vent rage on? I read Alan's letter
and he sounded a lot like my ex, for the first couple of lines, I
thought it was him and I had hope again. I had hope that he finally saw
me for who I am. I had hope that I could have my husband back, healthy
and whole...but realistically, the damage is done, and he lacks Alan's
insight (as well as his library)and he too is sleeping alone. Submit Is anyone else concerned that
after only 30 days since he discovered he is a wife abuser (because his
wife left him), Alan is the "expert" on this page? Does it concern any
of the women who are dealing with co dependency issues, that a
confirmed abused (for 8 years AT LEAST)is now our guru? Stop
congratulating him ladies. As many of you have pointed out, he only
figured it out because he lost his wife. It has only been a month. He
is not in any position to have these kind of "advice" conversations
(where he is giving answers, or controling) with abused women. STOP
GIVING HIM POWER. Alan, share your story, but do it in a way and in a
forum where you are not advising or leading potential victims. Don't
think your new position as martyr on this page is not an extension of
your PROBLEMS - it is not part of your healing Submit Everyone needs to speak for
themselves. All ladies and gents (many men have been abused, too) it
isnt a gender thing even though it happens to more women. It is
unfortunate that we stay in these relationships and many times we didnt
even realize to the magnitude of manipulation. It was done with such
kindness or covert ways. I dont see Alan being an expert. Alan, you
will have to be very honest with yourself, cause admitting your abuse
and changing the behavior are two completely different things. The
abuser and victim really are on different unhealthy rides. I hope the
men and women who have been in abusive relationships have done the work
to recognize the abusive nature, learn boundaries, and attract
themselves to healthier people. It really is major work on both sides.
Most of it came from the childhood relationship patterns, so you have
to deal with the anger, it is on both sides (anger) and process it with
a good abuse counselor. Most people will not recover without the help
of a professional. We also have to take personal responsibility. Being
separated and alone is good for both parties. Neither are really
healthy enough to have a relationship without the work. I personally
keep doing the work on recovery, balance it with healthy choices, and
let my Higher Power, guide me through the peaks and valleys. It is a
roller coaster. The outcomes of abusers recognizing and taking healthy
action is difficult, but I believe some make it. It doesnt make me feel
better to blast my ex for being the poison in the water. I have
accepted that he cant see it, therefore he cant make better choices. I
couldnt see my own abuse and it took me 6-10 months to recognize it
myself. How long did it take some of you to get it????? I have just
chosen to not be around him. That is my boundary. I have worked through
forgiveness and it has opened my life up immensely. Great things are
coming from it. So, I believe we all can have fruitful lives, and are
deserving of fruit, when we all do our part to take personal
responsibility. I have noticed, that those of us who were the victims,
can still sabatoge ourselves. That is what I have to pay most attention
to. I still catch myself believing I dont deserve to have quality of
life. But I do and it is coming, ever so sweetly. Keep up the work. Submit Hello to the poster who wrote,
"Is anyone else concerned that after only 30 days since he discovered
he is a wife abuser (because his wife left him), Alan is the "expert"
on this page? Does it concern any of the women who are dealing with co
dependency issues, that a confirmed abused (for 8 years AT LEAST)is now
our guru? Stop congratulating him ladies."
Not all of us are congratulating him. Not all of us even continued to
respond to his posts for attention and ammo.
Jennifer B
p.s. just today my best friend was telling me how after she caught her
husband cheating, (oh he had a credit card charge to a hotel while she
was in the HOSPITAL for her hysterectomy) that he wanted her to forgive
him right away, like how dare she be upset because I mean after all, he
WAS so sorry!! Submit Submit I am the one who posted the
really angry e-mail lambasting Alan and his "guru" status. I have to
appologise for bringing an angry tone to the page. I stand by my words
and thoughts. I am responsible though for bringing an aggressive tone
and it was uncalled for. We have all had enough of that in our lives.
As you can probably tell, I have just been let out of an abusive
relationship. Where I was once a happy, laughing funny woman, filled
with optimism (that is what he said he loved about me, my ability to be
generous of spirit and positive) my abuser infected me with the
suspicion, rage, hate and contempt he has for the world. What abusers
should know is this: when the woman you love turns into "the same old
nag, just like the other one's", it is because YOU have manipulated and
bullied her into changing. You manipulated and bullied all of the women
into becomming the same victim. THAT is the reason. M. violated my
boundaries and I am having a hard time responding to things as I
normally would. It is going to take some time before I can gage
correctly what is appropraite and thought based, rather than emotional
reaction. I am truly like a wounded dog and that is what terrifies me
the most. I don't recognize myself. I am aware that I am "off", but I
don't know how to get back to normal, and I am terrified I will remain
this slightly crazy, inappropraite, emotional basket case. I am
starting therapy, I have been a few times actually. The challenge I
face right now is that I am afraid to leave the house because of
outbursts like the post I did from the other day. I don't want to do
that in public, but apparently I can't be trusted yet. It semmed ok at
the time - the post. And now this whole e-mail sounds just like my
abuser does. God please help me. What happened to me? Submit You do sound like you are on
the early stages of abuse recognition. You are getting really good and
angry and it comes out. That is what I said about everyone has their
work to do. I think Alan has left the site. Alan, are you out there???
Even listening??? I hope you are with an abuse counselor cause it does
make the difference. I find myself telling my counselor the differences
you see when you are in the unhealthy abusive relationship vs the
healthier relationship. WOW! He jumps right in the minute you
distinquish the two. He gets it. He also an anger specialist and it is
all about anger. Sorry you are feeling so aggressive. I never ever
really got that way, but I can see where you can. I do hate that Alan
left the site cause he does have some information for us. Have you
tried to talk to your abuser?? They cant share anything that is
helpful.
Submit
I am still here. I have mostly been reading
the posts. It is difficult to respond to the harshness sometimes. I do
need to hear it and have by others and my wife. Thank you all of
sharing I am listening intently. The one person is right that it may
not be my plasce to give any aort of advice to someone that has been
abused. I have been reading a lot and learning from therapy ( he does
deal with abusive people). At times I felt I wanted to share what I had
learned, I truly did not mean any offence. There are also times where I
need to listen to positive re-enforcement as well. I guess abusers have
quite a challenge too. Overcoming a behaviour that has been ingrained
and accepted over years is no easy task. Its hard to see yourself from
the outside. It wasn’t easy to understand at first - I was in an
unconscious relationship. It is like walking around dead. Assuming
everything is normal – because this was normal for me and what I
learned in my past. Now that I am “awake” it is a scary world. Its like
being pulled out of a warm bath naked in the snow. There is nowhere to
turn for comfort. I had to face myself and re-learn my very own way of
thinking. After 30 years of conditioning this is hard to do. I am sure
the abused partners have it similar. Trying to figure out why they took
it for so long. Not being able to trust others. It is scary and painful
that my wife is in such turmoil, I am so used to sharing everything
with her and her me. Now we have ourselves. I have been grieving a lot
and am now learning about being in the present. I am spending a lot of
time healing and meditating. Asking a lot of questions about myself,
discovering where the behaviours have come from and trying to
understand them. I have no expectations at this point about any outcome
with my wife and I. I question “love” a lot. One of the writers asked
if abusers are capable of love. I know I am – at least I think I am. I
feel love for many people. I thought I was a genuine person. I look at
the people around me and I talk to them genuinely. I have love for my
wife – more than she knows - I just didn’t know how to show it. Some of
these actions and behaviours have to be taught. As my bad behaviours
were taught. Love was expressed very differently in my family and this
I accepted. My wife showed me love and I didn’t respond in the same
way. This hurts me everyday. Now that I see it, it is almost so simple.
I really did feel it. It was as if I was on auto pilot with all of my
reactions. I never stopped – I was continually reacting and had
constant thoughts of the future and what to do next, how to pay for
this, how to achieve that goal etc. There was no stillness. I am
learning that this is the only way to be aware. I hear other abused
partners talk about wishing their husbands could have been aware. Im
not sure it makes much of a difference. The damage has already been
done. Like my wife you have bad memories and walk with pain. The person
who was supposed to love you did not show it. I understand how that
would hurt for a long time. I have heard change is possible for both.
It is necessary for me to change my behaviour for myself, I wont go on
walking dead – it is too horrifying to see yourself like that. I can
never go back. Alan
Submit Alan,
Thanks for your amazing story,(mine too!)Dr. Irene, when I stumbled
onto this site last night after one of my raging run-away from home
adolesant out bursts, I stayed up all night reading and surfing the
site.
God Bless you for your contribution and those that share.
Jim Submit Please,
don't buy into all of this.
A good lie is 2 parts truth and 1 part lie.
yes, these things are not good and anyone doing them needs to stop.
yes,i have verbally abused. i am sorry and i want to repentent for it.
no, i did not see it until my wife decided to stand up and leave.
does this mean that everything done was my fault?? maybe so, i don't
want it that way...
some people are just born nice. sooo nice. i wish i was born nice.
i wasn't trying to be mean, i did not know.
i still have a place in this world.
it's not right to throw up your hands and say "i am finished, to hell
with you."
the nice person, still has issues too. not very many, but they still
do.
we abusers are not hopeless. we need to change, but so do the nice
people.
nice people are looking for that relationship that will totally fulill
them. it won't be found. they will find something wrong with anyone.
verbal abuse is wrong. strong will is beautiful to a nice person. but
the person who leans toward controlling needs to somehow be aware of
the hurt they are causing and stop.
they don't however need to become wimpy and soft and blame themselves
for everything that ever happened in the relationship... a little bit
is the fault of the nice person. not very much, but some.
and yes, nice people do misunderstand a lot of things that are said or
done. mostly, out in the world and in relationships that are not
husband and wife. they hide or think there is a fairy tale land out
there somewhere... why, irene, don't you address that?? you probably
are a nice person.
to have this website that is just onesided. people happen stance onto
this and "WOW!! i have been verbally abused, time to pick up and
leave... there's no hope...this website clinches it...it's all their
fault...no wonder i can't get ahead in life...see you later... i bound
to be happy..."
people are people. no one is going to be perfect. even the good
relationships have one bad person in them and one nice person. it's
just how bad a nice person thinks is bad...(i know i have issues)
i hope you are getting the gist of this rant. Submit Alan, I appreciate your
willingness to visit on this site. It does show some character of who
you are. We have a lot to share and learn from each other on both
sides. If my ex could have done what you were doing we would have been
able to at least see the patterns and correct things. So, I am still
going to give you a + mark for staying in the game, while some beat up
on you. You are taking it seriously, I can tell. Not too many abusers
are going to stay on the line and take what you have taken from the
victims. Who do you think was in your past that created some of your
actions/behaviors?? Have you pinpointed it?? I believe that abusers are
capable of loving. It really just seems to be the intimate partner that
takes the brunt of the abusive nature, most of the times. So, abusers
can and are pretty genuine about caring and loving others. We all have
our control, fear and insecurities. We have to work on them to free up
ourselves and others from our needs to control. I have seen a real
difference having been in counseling. It does take about 3-5 years to
really start to see it show up around you. When my counselor said 3-5
years, he wasnt kidding. You might want to go to an anger workshop. My
daughter and I did. 6 weeks. Anger is more than just getting mad and
saying things that hurt. It is amazing. Some of us dont even know how
to get angry. That is scary. How do you think the victims of abuse can
help you??? The confrontation, pointing out the subtle things, what
helps you to see the abuse???
I dont want to lose the abuser side. It gives us an opportunity to ask
questions and learn, too. Submit Please,
don't buy into all of this.
A good lie is 2 parts truth and 1 part lie.
yes, these things are not good and anyone doing them needs to stop.
yes,i have verbally abused. i am sorry and i want to repentent for it.
no, i did not see it until my wife decided to stand up and leave.
does this mean that everything done was my fault?? maybe so, i don't
want it that way...
some people are just born nice. sooo nice. i wish i was born nice.
i wasn't trying to be mean, i did not know.
i still have a place in this world.
it's not right to throw up your hands and say "i am finished, to hell
with you."
the nice person, still has issues too. not very many, but they still
do.
we abusers are not hopeless. we need to change, but so do the nice
people.
nice people are looking for that relationship that will totally fulill
them. it won't be found. they will find something wrong with anyone.
verbal abuse is wrong. strong will is beautiful to a nice person. but
the person who leans toward controlling needs to somehow be aware of
the hurt they are causing and stop.
they don't however need to become wimpy and soft and blame themselves
for everything that ever happened in the relationship... a little bit
is the fault of the nice person. not very much, but some.
and yes, nice people do misunderstand a lot of things that are said or
done. mostly, out in the world and in relationships that are not
husband and wife. they hide or think there is a fairy tale land out
there somewhere... why, irene, don't you address that?? you probably
are a nice person.
to have this website that is just onesided. people happen stance onto
this and "WOW!! i have been verbally abused, time to pick up and
leave... there's no hope...this website clinches it...it's all their
fault...no wonder i can't get ahead in life...see you later... i bound
to be happy..."
people are people. no one is going to be perfect. even the good
relationships have one bad person in them and one nice person. it's
just how bad a nice person thinks is bad...(i know i have issues)
i hope you are getting the gist of this rant. Submit
I am still here. I have mostly been reading
the posts. It is difficult to respond to the harshness sometimes. I do
need to hear it and have by others and my wife. Thank you all of
sharing I am listening intently. The one person is right that it may
not be my plasce to give any aort of advice to someone that has been
abused. I have been reading a lot and learning from therapy ( he does
deal with abusive people). At times I felt I wanted to share what I had
learned, I truly did not mean any offence. There are also times where I
need to listen to positive re-enforcement as well. I guess abusers have
quite a challenge too. Overcoming a behaviour that has been ingrained
and accepted over years is no easy task. Its hard to see yourself from
the outside. It wasn’t easy to understand at first - I was in an
unconscious relationship. It is like walking around dead. Assuming
everything is normal – because this was normal for me and what I
learned in my past. Now that I am “awake” it is a scary world. Its like
being pulled out of a warm bath naked in the snow. There is nowhere to
turn for comfort. I had to face myself and re-learn my very own way of
thinking. After 30 years of conditioning this is hard to do. I am sure
the abused partners have it similar. Trying to figure out why they took
it for so long. Not being able to trust others. It is scary and painful
that my wife is in such turmoil, I am so used to sharing everything
with her and her me. Now we have ourselves. I have been grieving a lot
and am now learning about being in the present. I am spending a lot of
time healing and meditating. Asking a lot of questions about myself,
discovering where the behaviours have come from and trying to
understand them. I have no expectations at this point about any outcome
with my wife and I. I question “love” a lot. One of the writers asked
if abusers are capable of love. I know I am – at least I think I am. I
feel love for many people. I thought I was a genuine person. I look at
the people around me and I talk to them genuinely. I have love for my
wife – more than she knows - I just didn’t know how to show it. Some of
these actions and behaviours have to be taught. As my bad behaviours
were taught. Love was expressed very differently in my family and this
I accepted. My wife showed me love and I didn’t respond in the same
way. This hurts me everyday. Now that I see it, it is almost so simple.
I really did feel it. It was as if I was on auto pilot with all of my
reactions. I never stopped – I was continually reacting and had
constant thoughts of the future and what to do next, how to pay for
this, how to achieve that goal etc. There was no stillness. I am
learning that this is the only way to be aware. I hear other abused
partners talk about wishing their husbands could have been aware. Im
not sure it makes much of a difference. The damage has already been
done. Like my wife you have bad memories and walk with pain. The person
who was supposed to love you did not show it. I understand how that
would hurt for a long time. I have heard change is possible for both.
It is necessary for me to change my behaviour for myself, I wont go on
walking dead – it is too horrifying to see yourself like that. I can
never go back. Alan
Submit Alan,
I would like to reiterate what some have said. It is good to hear your
point of view. People in recovery from both sides of the fence can help
eachother. I asked the questions about love and your answer was
helpful. It does take courage for you to be on this site, or maybe it
is something undafe, I don't know. I can't trust my judgement right
now. Only you can answer it. But it is also true that if my ex could
bring himself to get the help he admitted he needs, both of our lives
would be different. So, if it is genuine that you are here to learn, I
commend you. Understand that the lack of trust on our part is not
unfounded. One of the aspects of abusive relationships is sometimes a
quick romance, which stymies time for real trust building...trust
building takes time. Especially with a group like this. We have learned
not to trust quickly and easily. and all things require patience. Submit Stop beating yourself down.
Yes you abused, but now your eyes are wide open and you want to do what
is right. You are getting help. If your wife does not want to forgive,
what can you do? Let go, stop trying to control and pray that God keeps
making you the man that He wants you to be. Pray your wife will see the
change in you. You have this incredible love for your wife. For her not
to forgive you would be a travisty. You are the best husband she can
ever have at this point. All your rough edges are getting worn off. You
know this wonderful woman inside and out. If she allows you to, you
will treat like the queen and best friend she is. She won't find that
in any other man. She was attracted to you for a reason. Keep changing
and getting as much information you can. Ask God to keep softening your
heart, but be strong and secure. Be humble in spirit and kind in word.
That is the best you can be. Don't change your whole personality
though. You are an awesome man. Don't give up. And God answers prayer. Submit Thank you all for continuing
to post. This is really helpful for many people. I would like to
respond to a few of you.
The person who talked about “its not right to throw up your hands and
say Im finished”. I hear what you are saying. It is very honorable to
work things out and stay in a relationship for a stronger outcome. It
is easy to see it from the outside as two people with problems that can
be solved. However, it is important to remember the other persons point
of view. My wife was yelled at for 8 years – not constantly – sometimes
not even often, but still a pattern. When you have a large man, with
his heavy eyebrows pointed down, cringing his face and yelling at the
top of his lungs it is a scary place to be. I know, I have been on the
other side as well. You want to turn into a bug and run as far away
from that person as possible. Almost sometimes hoping the person will
actually squash you so that you will not need to endure it any longer.
Then you realize this is the person that you love, you want to help
them. So you let time heal and you do great things for them hoping that
they will change because they will see what you have done for them. It
is possible they do for a bit, making it feel safe again. Then without
warning out comes the monstor to attack. I can only assume that my wife
held this in for so long and made excuses that her body told her enough
is enough and turned the other way. My wife leaving was necessary. It
woke me up. I am awake now. I have never been awake before. It feels
very different. Healthy, scary, lonely, painful, but strong. I do have
hope that one day she may decide to take another look, and I will be
ready. However, I cant expect it and I know the healing process will
take time. It is all necessary right now. I know one thing. I will
never be unconscious again. I think once this mask has been lifted I
can see too clearly to put it back on. At least I hope I will always
feel this way. You hear stories, about people returning to their old
ways. Its scary.
Also spend more time on this site. You will find it is not one sided.
There is a lot of information on both the abused partner and the
abuser. It has given me a lot of wisdom on how to move forward and
recognize my behaviours. Thank you for your insights.
Alan Submit Thank you to the person who
speaks of “your ex getting the help that he needs”. IT is not easy to
ask for help and to admit what you are doing. It is also not easy to
see. As well, even when you see it is not easy to make all the changes
– I have been this way for a long time. Part of me wants to say how
life is unfair and I did try and I was nice most of the time etc. But I
trust that my wife did not leave for no reason. Something horrible must
have happened for her to leave like that without much warning. And so I
needed to do some deep digging to see what it was and I found some
answers. I agree with you that it is hard to trust ourselves. Thank you
for stating that from the abused partner’s side. I imagine you question
how you let yourself be treated that way for a period of time. Im
curious about what you are referring to with the “quick romance” are
you talking about this group only or something else?
Alan Submit Thank you for the advice “If
your wife does not want to forgive, what can you do? Let go, stop
trying to control and pray that God keeps making you the man that He
wants you to be.”
This is helpful. I am learning this slowly. There is nothing I can do.
I wont say it doesn’t hurt like hell, but it is out of my control. I
pray for myself and her daily. I don’t know if I’m the best husband she
could have, but I know I could do my best to be. Far better than I
could 41 days ago. Im sure I still have some edges, they are slightly
rounded at this point but not gone. Im working on it. I did know her
well. I thought inside out, but I don’t think she knew herself well
enough, or at least wasn’t letting on more than she thought she could.
So she held back from me. This is hard because part of me feels if she
could have let a little bit more out I might have been able to see it
more clearly. But maybe not. I should have regardless. I do think we
were attracted for a reason. I often remember us laughing and being
silly. I cant be this way with anyone else. That is special to me. I
miss that. Thinking about our relationship that no one else shared but
us gives me hope that there is love. Thank you for the compliments.
Your right I am not hearing them right now. I am beating myself up, but
I am listening intently. I need some more courage to forgive myself. It
will take time. Alan
Submit by "quick romance" I was
drawing an analogy...should have said it better...between the typical
way an abusive personality consumes a new person and demands a level of
commitment intimacy and trust which is impossible in a short space of
time. The same applies on the board. Expect it to take TIME before you
can trust yourself or your wife can trust you or any of us can trust
you...longer than normal because we all have special issues. Submit I understand. Thanks for the
clarification. Time I have lots of. I am learning patience and not to
expect anything. It is a daily struggle but I feel I improve every day.
Alan Submit Yes,
I think it is hard for abusers to admit they are wrong. I believe most
have been taught to mistreat others by way of modeling in their homes
of origin. Those of us who have been abused by significant others and
"got away" and thought we wouldn't pick another one like the one
before, and in fact do,end up feeling extremely angry at ourselves,
trapped and almost helpless in the situation. That is because once you
dive into a relationship with an abuser, you do feel trapped, until you
are able to break free and treat yourself how you deserve..with RESPECT
and dignity.
Abusers should be ashamed of their behavior, but often are not.
Somewhere along the way, they shut down, and began their reign of
terror on unsuspecting others who loved them and were caught up by
their initial charm and "love". Submit For the comment above mine:
You're right, it is hard for me to admit that I am wrong. But, now I
know I am. If you picked out another one then you are not healthy
either. Would it not have been better to stay with the original one and
worked on the problems?
You delicate creatures (not a putdown) do have problems that you have
to take resposibilities for. We abusers did not treat you with the
respect you deserved...I will now. I have learned my lesson. Won't you
be patient with us?
My dream is to save marriages. To take the husband and try to wake them
up and show them how to treat their wife. We honestly do not treat you
this way on purpose and once we feel how badly it hurts you we are very
ashamed and willing to do anything it takes, but you all say it's too
late.
My question for any verbally abused wife: Is there a perfect romance
novel man out there? Please look within and see your problems and
excuses and not only ours.
I am writing this in a non threatening tone of voice, searching for
answers and not in an argumentative tone. I'm not Alan, but I am an ex
abuser(hopefully) Submit For the person who is asking
for another chance. I think that if you are looking for it then it may
be hard to find. You cant force it or control it. This is what got us
into trouble in the first place. If it is meant to happen then it will.
If you abused someone then they need to recover from it. A fix cannot
be forced - especially by the abuser. My wife needs time away to sort
out her own issues and to recover from the abuse. If she feels that she
would like to try to work things out then we are able to try. If
however, she does not wish to work things out then there is absolutely
nothing I can do about it. Ill give you advice that others have given
me and it is hard to hear but helps everyday. Work on yourself. You
cant expect any relationship change to happen without a change in your
own behaviour. It will take time - Ive been at it for 43 days. It still
hurts like hell and is really hard to come to terms with everything.
Re-learning behaviour is no easy task. It takes practice every day all
the time. Finding out why you are angry in the first place takes some
deep searching, and it is extremely painful. Facing your own demons is
scary and hurtful, but I believe it is helping. Get into therapy if you
can and read the books. It is best if you are guided through it. It
will take time and admitting some really horrible things about
yourself. The more you understand it I think the more you will realize
how important this change is. Make the changes not to get your
relationship back, but so that you will be a better person.
I hope this helps. I know you want to fix it right away - this is the
control that we have to change - recognize the feeling but dont react
on it. If your interested, the Jon Kabat-Zinn books are very helpful.
Im reading "Wherever you go, There you are". Learning mindfullness have
allowed me to pay attention to all things. It has taught me patience
and being still. This has given me strength to resist the temptation to
react.
I hope this can help you.Alan Submit Thanks Alan,
I know there are holes in my arguments, my way of thinking. You make
excellent arguments and I can see your progress. I guess it may be
control that I am seeking. As one abuser to another, near the end I
desparately wanted to get marriage counselling. I saw what I had done,
what an evil jerk I had been. My poor wife wanted none of it. She had
had enough. I don't believe I started out that way. My whole marriage
my wife was reading my mind. She has been a people pleaser her whole
life, being married to me and my selfishness did not help her self
esteem any. She is very tender and kind. I believe, through counselling
by myself, that I fell into this pattern. I got some twisted
fulfillment out of her trying to read my mind, it built up my self
esteem. I am not trying to minimize my behavior(and if I am, I don't
see it yet). My point is this: If she were healthier, she would not
have put up with my garbage from the git go...she may have not even
married me either...I don't want that, but she would have told me I was
invading her borders. I know she did tell try to tell me, hind sight.
But it seemed very subtle to me. And if I were not the inconsiderate
selfish person I was, I should have picked up what she was saying, but
I didn't. I never wanted to hurt her. It was not on my agenda nor was
it on yours. blah, blah, blah, I know I am talking circles around
myself. Sometimes I wish she would have stood up to me and said "You
are lying again." or "Cram it you know where." She was very nice, she
did not do that. I personally would of thought that very attractive.
But I am probably wrong there too. she did the doormat thing until she
had all she could take. I am not trying to offend anyone with this
post. And I don't mind criticism if you want to blast me. I need to
hear it. Anyway, Alan, I hope and pray you get your wife back. You seem
like a very humble human being and I think humbleness here is the key.
Yes, you have helped me. God bless you. Steve Submit Steve and Alan, I applaud both
of you for being so candid and stepping up to take responsibility. You
dont know how many of us wish our abusers would just be open to the
fact that "maybe" their behavior could have been a key factor in the
break up of our relationships. You know, we victims arent saints, we
make/made our own shares of mistakes, but we never claimed to be
perfect, but we were made to be perfect and when we didnt measure up,
we felt so low and couldnt figure out why our partners werent happy. We
felt like we did the right things to have a nice home, good kids,
responsible to the household, but it was never good enough. I dont
think we really even nagged. Most of the time we went along to get
along. That was our mistake. Steve, you are right, we should have put
on our boot and kicked you to the street. This would have gotten the
attention that we werent going to put up with this stuff, but we were
too afraid that you would have left. I always asked, why is it that I
have to become the bad guy and make the changes that the bad guy should
have seen was innappropriate??? I dont get that I have to change my
goodness to be a bad guy to get someone who is making poor choices,
straighten up. Shouldn't he/she see for him/herself that he/she needs
to make the choices for him/herself. It is a mind boggeling thing. It
is crazy making. I wish both parties could really see the nasty sides
this disease plays out and if both parties could learn how the dance
got that way, correct the steps, the families could stay in tact. You
can almost laugh about it when you finally see the reality of how crazy
it all is/was. But, unfortunately, there are some in the party who
wont/cant see what they most need to see. The big ole elephant sits in
the room and lets everyone else be the problem instead of saying, "oh
my, what have I done to create such a mess in this family situation?"
But you two, seem to get it. You are in enough pain, and miss your
spouse to care. That is a good start.
Most of us would forgive our spouses if they would just step up, admit
the possibility, and say I'll work on it with a good professional. I
would have done my work 110% with the elephant, cause we still love
them. We never stopped loving them. That is what we grieve the most. We
love you guys, more than anything, but we cant love you anymore cause
we cant live with that kind of abuse day in and day out. Thanks for
sharing your thoughts. I hope your spouses are reading these posts, so
they can see how lucky they are to at least see their spouses taking an
interest in posting. That says alot. Submit Alan, Steve. I've been reading
this post since 01-05 and agree with most of what you say. I was (and
hopefully to this date still am) in a relationship where I moved in
with my girlfriend 3.5 yrs ago who was just (then) recently divorced.
She had been a victim for 16 years with her previous marriage. I never
EVER thought I had been an abuser. Alot like other men, I understood
abuse as physical, not mental. My girlfreind would write her daily
acitivites in a journal. About every three months she would let me read
her journal, not having a clue with what she was all about. Everything
was about me. I need to improve, help myself. What was this all about?
We broke up around the 1st of December (my choice). I thought I didnn't
need it. Christmas Day after spending it alone I realized I had made a
mistake. After Christmas she allowed me to read her recent journal
along with a book titled "When I Love you becomes violent" and MY GOD,
I had no idea that book was about me. I felt so ashamed of my behaviour
for the past 3 and a half years and pretty much most of my adult life
with my previous marriage of 7 years other relationships. She and I had
gone to therapy for the past 6 months, but I was too closed-minded to
realize what was going on with me. After reading the book I felt like a
huge weight had been lifted. Since then, I've gone to therapy alone and
am really getting the idea of what SHE is all about. The help I've
received from this post,, hearing from the victims themselves has been
more than enough to wake me up. I know I too will probably be blasted
from others, but I want you all to know I am on the road to recovery
and thank all of you for your input, because without it I just couldn't
seem to understand where the vicitms were coming from. Most of my
actions I feel came from fear of someone really getting to know me. I
always felt knowledge was power and the more power I gave someone, the
more they could (or would have) control over me. It really is about
control. I have surrendered since then and will continue to read the
posts, continue therapy, constantly educate myself and constantly
remind myself of the crap I made her put up with. I re-read her letters
from the past three and a half years, understanding more and more what
she was trying to say. In the last couple of weeks we have spent some
really "special time" together and I am so thankful she's even giving
me the time of day. I ended up wrting my ex-wife a letter of apology a
couple of weeks ago and I've been divorced from her for five years.
Alan, I hope things work for you. Believe me, I was there. Never again.
M Submit Alan, Steve. I've been reading
this post since 01-05 and agree with most of what you say. I was (and
hopefully to this date still am) in a relationship where I moved in
with my girlfriend 3.5 yrs ago who was just (then) recently divorced.
She had been a victim for 16 years with her previous marriage. I never
EVER thought I had been an abuser. Alot like other men, I understood
abuse as physical, not mental. My girlfreind would write her daily
acitivites in a journal. About every three months she would let me read
her journal, not having a clue with what she was all about. Everything
was about me. I need to improve, help myself. What was this all about?
We broke up around the 1st of December (my choice). I thought I didnn't
need it. Christmas Day after spending it alone I realized I had made a
mistake. After Christmas she allowed me to read her recent journal
along with a book titled "When I Love you becomes violent" and MY GOD,
I had no idea that book was about me. I felt so ashamed of my behaviour
for the past 3 and a half years and pretty much most of my adult life
with my previous marriage of 7 years other relationships. She and I had
gone to therapy for the past 6 months, but I was too closed-minded to
realize what was going on with me. After reading the book I felt like a
huge weight had been lifted. Since then, I've gone to therapy alone and
am really getting the idea of what SHE is all about. The help I've
received from this post,, hearing from the victims themselves has been
more than enough to wake me up. I know I too will probably be blasted
from others, but I want you all to know I am on the road to recovery
and thank all of you for your input, because without it I just couldn't
seem to understand where the vicitms were coming from. Most of my
actions I feel came from fear of someone really getting to know me. I
always felt knowledge was power and the more power I gave someone, the
more they could (or would have) control over me. It really is about
control. I have surrendered since then and will continue to read the
posts, continue therapy, constantly educate myself and constantly
remind myself of the crap I made her put up with. I re-read her letters
from the past three and a half years, understanding more and more what
she was trying to say. In the last couple of weeks we have spent some
really "special time" together and I am so thankful she's even giving
me the time of day. I ended up wrting my ex-wife a letter of apology a
couple of weeks ago and I've been divorced from her for five years.
Alan, I hope things work for you. Believe me, I was there. Never again.
M Submit Alan, Steve. I've been reading
this post since 01-05 and agree with most of what you say. I was (and
hopefully to this date still am) in a relationship where I moved in
with my girlfriend 3.5 yrs ago who was just (then) recently divorced.
She had been a victim for 16 years with her previous marriage. I never
EVER thought I had been an abuser. Alot like other men, I understood
abuse as physical, not mental. My girlfreind would write her daily
acitivites in a journal. About every three months she would let me read
her journal, not having a clue with what she was all about. Everything
was about me. I need to improve, help myself. What was this all about?
We broke up around the 1st of December (my choice). I thought I didnn't
need it. Christmas Day after spending it alone I realized I had made a
mistake. After Christmas she allowed me to read her recent journal
along with a book titled "When I Love you becomes violent" and MY GOD,
I had no idea that book was about me. I felt so ashamed of my behaviour
for the past 3 and a half years and pretty much most of my adult life
with my previous marriage of 7 years other relationships. She and I had
gone to therapy for the past 6 months, but I was too closed-minded to
realize what was going on with me. After reading the book I felt like a
huge weight had been lifted. Since then, I've gone to therapy alone and
am really getting the idea of what SHE is all about. The help I've
received from this post,, hearing from the victims themselves has been
more than enough to wake me up. I know I too will probably be blasted
from others, but I want you all to know I am on the road to recovery
and thank all of you for your input, because without it I just couldn't
seem to understand where the vicitms were coming from. Most of my
actions I feel came from fear of someone really getting to know me. I
always felt knowledge was power and the more power I gave someone, the
more they could (or would have) control over me. It really is about
control. I have surrendered since then and will continue to read the
posts, continue therapy, constantly educate myself and constantly
remind myself of the crap I made her put up with. I re-read her letters
from the past three and a half years, understanding more and more what
she was trying to say. In the last couple of weeks we have spent some
really "special time" together and I am so thankful she's even giving
me the time of day. I ended up wrting my ex-wife a letter of apology a
couple of weeks ago and I've been divorced from her for five years.
Alan, I hope things work for you. Believe me, I was there. Never again.
M Submit Thanks M for sharing
You are blessed that you get a second chance. I had a dream last night
that I did too. Life was different. There was respect and mutuality.
Listening to everything and revelling in the beauty of life at every
moment. I am seeing through different eyes these days. I am seeing in
moment by moment rather than 2 years into the future. What a difference
it makes to live in the now. I appreciate life and those around me. I
get the sense you see this with your relationship now. This is a
beautiful thing.
I am hoping you are asking her lots of questions and listening
intently. Has she gone through her own disscoveries as well? I would be
worried if this is all coming from you. I know for myself there was a
hidden fear of bringing up the bad stuff when it was "working". I know
better now. Her happiness and well-being are so important to me. Even
if it means we cannot be together.
I wish you both well. Enjoy this life. Alan Submit To the person above who
mentioned " I dont think we ever really nagged". Thank you for
continuing to post. It must be difficult after what you have been
through to talk so openly with admitted abusers. I know that every
situation is different, but like you my wife never nagged either. My
list of expectations grew and the more I became unsatisfied with myself
the more I would take it out on her. There was no right way, she could
not have made it right. I am sorry you did not have a husband that was
willing to admit his faults. It is hard to face yourself and your past.
For everyone. I am learning from others here and on the chat groups
that we all have this search in common. To be better human beings and
to respect ourselves -as we are today - not what we were told from
years ago, or who we thought we were expected to be. It aint easy with
so much pattern engrianed. Awareness is powerful. It feels like
watching a movie, seeing this person that I was. Reacting in such
stupid, senseless ways. It must have been so obvious watching it and so
helpless not being able to stop it. I realised that only we can stop
ourselves. I believe (and hope) that once it is recognized, with the
right help and daily practice we can control it and stop it from
affecting us and the ones we love for as long as we live. This is what
is keeping me going everyday. Thanks for being here. Alan Submit Guys, I cant say enough about
the help all of us will receive by working together victim/abuser on
this site. I wish Dr. Irene would check in and see this great stuff
coming from both sides. It is refreshing seeing the abuser care enough
to want to get help, see his/her side of the abuse and try and
understand it. It is stuff from our past, things we were taught. If we
can get really real with it, we can move past the painful hurts and
build a really good relationship with another person. I hope that the
spouses are reading these posts. Very beneficial for them to see that
most abusers dont seek help, acknowledge their behavior or even attempt
to care enough to repair the situation. Also, you are right, it is the
fear of whatever it is inside of you that keeps you from wanting to
admit and take responsibility for this abuse. My counselor told me that
my husband had such a painful past and wounded that he has made the
choice to not take responsibility cause he does not want to dig up all
that painful emotion that has been so stuffed down inside of him since
his childhood. HeI dont blame him for his behavior. I get angry cause
he wont take the risk to work on it so he can be freed up from the
pain, and get back with this adorable family he has. It is really sad.
We could all be so happy and having fun, being in the day to day. When
you get with a really good abuse counselor they will free you up from
the pain that has held you bondage. It is behavior that you have been
taught and most of it was just wrong teaching and modeling. I hope your
spouses care enough to see the "step up" you guys have taken to try and
see this behavior. I cant say enough about how good it makes me feel
that someone will take responsibility. I dont think very many spouses
who were victim wouldnt just love to have that cherished relationship
with someone who has learned and acknowledged and changed the abusive
behavior. There is some really good stuff in all of us that we are
attracted to, and it is those good parts we want to experience. Please
tell your ex's/girlfriends/spouses to read these posts and try and see
the reality of what some good work can do. I had a counselor tell me
one time that if two people can open themselves up to good counseling,
they can have a relationship that is 70 times better than they could
possibly have imagined. I hope one of you couples will take the risk,
sign up and show the world that you can overcome this crazy stuff. I
wonder sometime how many relationships get lost in the pain, instead of
lifted up into the serenity a good couple can have together. Keep
working and fighting. If you love someone you will set them free, but
at the same time, take a stand and dont just give up. Sometimes we
think its cool to see someone care enough about us to take a stand. Not
in a controlling way, but a loving way. Keep learning. It will pay off.
I believe it does take about 5 years to really get it. It is a good
feeling. Each year I have been recovering has been a really great step
in a finding a new relationship that has all the ingredients of love,
security, nurture and respect. I dont hardly even have to think in this
relationship. It is so natural and smooth. Yikes! Submit Thankyou for the person who
wrote above "take a stand and dont just give up". This is encouraging
coming from someone who has been in a similar situation to my wife. I
am glad to hear your recovery and this gives me hope that my wife will
one day find her own voice and strength to recover from this abuse with
or without me. It is difficult from my side to take any stand at this
point. I do not trust my judgements as some of my good intentions
recently have been taken as insults by my wife. I dont want to inflict
any more pain unto her. I know she needs this time to be away from me
and I fear that any attempt to communicate will come across as
controlling or not in the way I intend it to be. I love me wife dearly
and miss her with everything however I understand her distance and do
not hold any negative feelings towards it. This is necessary. Alan Submit How do I get some legal help in a custody issue, which has been done
by my husband behind my back,....when he and my older son, conspired
and TOOK my younger son...away from me? Submit Dear Alan,
I have to say that I was incredibly shocked when I read this post
because it is almost word for word about what happened in my marriage.
Even your name is the same as my ex's middle name! I guess that says
something about the universality of abuse.
I would like to point something out that I don't think anyone has said
to you. My ex always referred to me as "the wife." I hated it.
Everytime I heard that phrase I felt like saying....but I am a person
not a wife! Of course, I never did because for 20 years I had been told
that I was too sensitive so I learned to cover my responses because
they were always "wrong." Had he said "my wife," I would have felt like
he loved me at least a little. But "the wife" objectified me and was
one of the reasons that I chose to finally leave. I realized that even
after anger management classes, I was still a thing to him.
The listening part is very tricky. Since my ex husband was a
withholder, the "listening silence" felt like one more chance for him
to withhold. When we were first married and I asked him how I looked,
he answered "my mother taught me that if I couldn't say anything nice,
I shouldn't say anything at all." (followed by his laughter.) My whole
marriage he never said anything about me. The message was pretty clear.
So when he decided to "listen" (as he said) in the end....it sent the
wrong message. It would have been better if he had said...."you are
right and I am very sorry." I also never told my exh how I truly felt
about him until we were separated. Why? Because it would have hurt him.
When he did something embarrassing I covered it up....he was my husband
and I wanted to support him. When he said mean things to me, I would
plead with him to love me and support me. He loved to tell me how
strong I was. Now I realize that it was after he had insulted or
embarrassed me and it was one more way to shut me up.
While we were separated he came to me after an anger management session
and told me why he was so angry. His reason? Because I am fat. His
whole angry life has to do with me being overweight. At that point, my
mercy broke and I too began telling him all the disappointments that I
had over the 20 years. Not the little disappointments because I had
attempted to share those with him, but the big ones. Like the sexual
frustration I had due to his physical inadequacy, or the shame I felt
because he would do disgusting things in front of other people to try
and be funny. I'm sure it hurt him and it seemed as if I just started
to remember. No, the memories were all there, but I chose to submerge
them in order to treat him humanely. Crazy, he never did the same for
me! I stuck to my guns, left him and moved to another country. I had
to. I knew that since I was "the wife", i.e. just another possession, I
had to get as far away as possible from him in order to have a life.
Also I was just a little bit afraid that he would attempt to kill me if
I ever had too much of a life in our town where we lived.
The man who had changed so much has continued to abuse me....even three
years later. He has completely alienated our young adult daughter by
"telling her things" (her words) and playing the victim. He also calls
my family regularly and tells them things about me. So I don't think he
has really changed.
Hope this gives you some added perspective into your situation.
Submit Submit It's really sad. I went
through this abuse awareness 4 years ago. I didnt realize I had been so
abused in my marriage. It was done through subtle ways and silence.
Psychological manipulation. The scariest thing is seeing the results
this has had on my daughter who is now 21. She is still dragged down by
it but doesnt really understand the magnitude of affect it has on her.
Very disturbing. I thought I was much stronger and able to battle this
abuse, but clearly, I taught her to keep putting up with it. She
actually wrote a paper in middle school that stated I was a very noble
and strong person. Well guess what, abuse makes us so strong and noble
to a fault. We should have have been placed in this position.
We should be able to love and be loved and not always be the strong one
to respond to every little thing. I have a college friend who has been
in an abusive relationship for 20 years and just recently left. She
contacted me on Sunday and said she had dipped down to her lowest
(thoughts of suicide) since she discovered how bad her situation was.
Her soon to be ex told her the other day that he wishes she wouldnt
divorce him so that she could see how much better he has become at
learning how to tolerate her. WOW! What a punch. We are just objects to
be punched on, by the abuser. Surely, abusers dont really mean what
they say. They just dont know how to communicate. Surely! Guys, is it,
that you dont really know what you are saying or is it just out of
control thinking??? I am always so curious as to what the abuser is
really thinking. Who are you really mad and angry at?? Yourself, your
mother, who is it??? It really isnt us, is it. Dont you really love
us??
You dont really hate us as much as you act like you do, do you??? Can
anyone explain that part??? Please help us to understand. I do believe
it is the most intimate partner that suffers at the hands of the
abuser. My ex acts so innocent and just pretends like I hav just made
all of this up. When I tell him what I learned in counseling, he says
"that counselor doesnt know me." Well guess what, they know you long
before you walk in the door, cause they have seen the profile. All a
victim has to do is start explaining their situation and the
professional can hone right in on it. I never was expecting to go to
counseling and find out that I had been abused as severly as I had
been. I went to counseling to find out what was wrong with me, and why
I couldnt measure up. It was unbelieveable what I had learned. I still
appreciate the abusers on this site, Alan, Steve, and others who are
helping us to see what is in the abusers mind??? Guys, what did yall
witness in your childhoods. Did your parents abuse you or teach you
these kinds of traits???
Help us to learn.
Submit Thank you to the last couple
postings. As you are asking questions of me I am also learning more
answers on how you have felt by your partners. It must be horrible for
you to be living with this weight, these memories. I don’t know if my
answers will help with your pain. I will answer as best as I can. Thank
you for asking. I don’t think that I am the same as Steve or anyone
else for that matter. I have had my own experiences and can only create
my own conclusions based on those. Nothing justifies any of my
behaviours towards my wife. However, it is important, as I have been
reading, to understand why I have abused and recognize the patterns of
“unfinished business” from the past in order to change.
I am in the process. I have heard it will take some time. Unlearning
how to think is hard work. I am sure letting go of painful memories is
also hard. Without getting into every detail I can give you some
examples of one of my patterns. At times I became very frustrated when
I felt my wife was not listening to me. I was constantly saying
(usually yelling) “your not listening, or your not hearing me.” What I
have come to realize was that I was looking for her to read my mind,
something that would have been impossible for her. It was all control.
The part where it was “unintentional” does not make it any less
harmful. This is the hard part for others to understand. As I said
before, it is like looking back and watching a movie. Seeing it happen,
but not understanding that that could be me. The psychology as I
understand it is that, once I started “reacting” I was reverting to the
part of me that never grew up. If you read about child abuse you will
see that children stop growing. At least parts of us did. So when I
think about the above example, when I was saying “your not listening” I
remembered saying that all the time to my parents. -although they would
not have realized the impact. If I was not heard and I really needed to
be (because of fear of being abused) this validation never came. So
here I am 20 years later still saying the same thing. And still acting
in the same way – with a tantrum, and no self-control – just like a
child. Again, I don’t want to justify the behaviour, because a 30 year
old should never act out their anger in any circumstance. Now that I
can see how I was and why I was I have the power to recognize it and
the tools to stop it. I hope this makes some sense and helps to answer
some of your questions. Thanks for posting. Alan
Submit Just in-case I did not do the
explanation justice, I will paste the notes I took from Patricia Evans
book - as I think she does a much better job at explaining it. - Alan
It becomes evident that every abuse is an attempt by an abuser to
defend himself from his inner child’s feelings of anger, fear and
helplessness, and to protect himself from the knowledge of what he is
doing.
Child grew up in a Reality 1 environment where the power over and
dominance prevailed, and hence so did verbal abuse. As in the case of
the partner many of the feelings could not be validated or accepted.
However, unlike the partner, he had no compassionate witness to his
experience. He could only conclude that nothing was wrong. If nothing
was wrong than all of his painful feelings must not exist.
Automatically he stopped feeling his painful feelings. He closed them
off as if one would close a door and no longer know they existed. He
did not know what he suffered.
In a way he closed the door on a part of himself and became injured to
reality 1. And he models his behaviour after his childhood abusers. -
he could not experience empathy and compassion.
Abusers seek Power-over because they feel helpless. The helpless
painful feelings of childhood that “must not exist” and “must not be
felt” do exist, and if are not felt are acted out. The longer the child
within is unrecognized, the more enraged it becomes, and consequently
the more rage the abuser acts out. Without empathy the abuser cannot be
sensitive to his partners anguish. He acts out his repressed feelings
doing onto her what was done to him at childhood. Since he cannot feel
his feelings he must act them out. His need to keep the overwhelming
pain that “must not exist” at bay is an underlying dynamic force which
compels him to seek ‘power-over’, control, dominance and superiority.
Submit There is usefulness in the
dialogue between the abused and the abuser, and I commend both sides
for having the courage to be open and to reach out and to have
dialogue. I read something very disturbing in a post from Steve.
Something like 'If she had told me in xyz way that I was abusive, I
would have understood...' That is exactly what my x used to say and it
IS PART of the abusive mentality. WE DO tell you in 100 + ways and it
is NOT up to the victim to explain it in a way that the abuser "likes"
to hear. THAT is controlling behaviour and it smaks of not taking
personal responsibility. Telling someone thier behaviour is hurtful,
harmful and unacceptable - ONCE is enough. Even when my abusive x raged
at me...I still was able to listen to his WORDS to look for 'truths'
and sense inbetween the invective. The owness is NOT on the victim to
keep trying if the abuser is not hearing. "If you had said it this way
I would have understood" NO NO NO! That is exactly the same as "you
tone, posture, act, PROVOKED me to hit, insult, withdraw, take revenge
(not understand- in otherwords, to BEHAVE as an understanding person)".
And if you think the victim gives up after the 100th time - you are
wrong. Why don't you think about your responses as an abuser when the
victim DOES tell you? Denial? Name calling? Minimizing? Reprisals? And
still you suggest the victim keeps trying? You have work to do. The
responsibility is ultimately YOURS ABUSER. DO NOT make the mistake of
eqalizing the circumstances of victims and abusers by saying you would
have been attracted to a more assertive response. That is a load. How
many times have abusers threatened to leave at the first sign of
assertion? Name called? Thought 'what a nag or bleep?', or just plain
ignored? Stop lying to yourselves. WE TRIED EVERYTHING. YOU DID NOT
RESPOND TO ANYTHING. My x when I confronted him and he admitted he had
a problem said "you have to help me, but you have to talk to me in a
way I like". SAYS IT ALL! Considering his whims changed with his mood
and I had to predict that....CONTROLLING BEHAVIOUR, SELFISH BEHAVIOUR.
PERIOD. OWN IT! Submit Alan, I was quite struck by
the similarities between you and my husband. The main difference was
that he did not yell or hit thinks. He was very covert. He controlled
what we ate, how it was fixed, I wasn't allowed to use sugar - only
honey because it was healthier. He controlled how I dressed and fixed
my hair. If I bought something he didn't like I would end up taking it
back because if I wore it he would say he didn't like and if I didn't
change he would be distant and unaffectionate. I had to have just the
right style purse, shoes, etc for the outfit. He complained that my
legs and butt was too big, stomach too pouchy, posture not good enough.
I am 5'4" 120lbs and very lean. If it were not for the fact that I
liked food so well I would have most likely become anorexic just to
please him. He berated me so much for about a year that I got to where
I wasn't even comfortable being around him unclothed. I was afraid he
would see another imperfection. All through the marriage there would be
times that he would get upset and go for 4-5 days and not hardly speak
to me. When I would ask him what was wrong he wouldn't tell me. When he
finally would start talking he would tell me that I didn't ask the
RIGHT way. He blamed me for all of our problems sexually. I wasn't
"wild" enough. He actually threatened to leave if I didn't do some of
the things he wanted. When I did give in he wouldn't enjoy it because I
was only doing it to keep him from hounding me. He always talked of
suicide which made me feel responsible for trying to keep him happy.
The last 3-4 yrs we were together he pretty much slept upstairs on the
couch. During this time I allowed myself to become emotionally attached
to another man and for the first time actually felt pretty. This
attraction (nothing physical) ultimately caused a big fight in which he
left with a few clothes and a gun and was threatening to kill himself.
I went to my parents and never returned. We tried couples counselling
but that didn't work. It wasn't until I got into individual counseling
that I finally realized that this was emotional/verbal abuse. I had no
idea until that point. I knew something wasn't right but couldn't
pinpoint the problem. About a year after we separated he finally
admitted to having a serious addition to pornography. No wonder I
couldn never live up to his expectations! Needless to say I was in
shock. It had been going on for years and I had no clue. We have been
married 14yrs, and separated for 2 of those. Even though we went to
couples counseling, my heart wasn't in it. I felt as if a weight had
been lifted from me and I am now soaring the first time ever and I'm
loving it. He to apoligized for all the things he had done and even
though he may not emotionally/verbally abuse me anymore I can still see
the controlling behavior. He only went to a few counselling sessions 2
yrs ago and has just recently started back but I will have to say that
in the 2 yrs we have been separated I have not missed him one day. I
have missed having another person around. It can be very lonely but I
wouldn't trade the loneliness to have him back. I hope that things will
be better for you two. I dread going through a divorce and fear what he
may do to himself. I suppose I still feel guilty and somewhat
resposible for hurting him plus the fact that we are both Christians
but I can't go back. I can't even picture myself with him anymore. It
makes me cringe. Submit Alan, I was quite struck by
the similarities between you and my husband. The main difference was
that he did not yell or hit thinks. He was very covert. He controlled
what we ate, how it was fixed, I wasn't allowed to use sugar - only
honey because it was healthier. He controlled how I dressed and fixed
my hair. If I bought something he didn't like I would end up taking it
back because if I wore it he would say he didn't like and if I didn't
change he would be distant and unaffectionate. I had to have just the
right style purse, shoes, etc for the outfit. He complained that my
legs and butt was too big, stomach too pouchy, posture not good enough.
I am 5'4" 120lbs and very lean. If it were not for the fact that I
liked food so well I would have most likely become anorexic just to
please him. He berated me so much for about a year that I got to where
I wasn't even comfortable being around him unclothed. I was afraid he
would see another imperfection. All through the marriage there would be
times that he would get upset and go for 4-5 days and not hardly speak
to me. When I would ask him what was wrong he wouldn't tell me. When he
finally would start talking he would tell me that I didn't ask the
RIGHT way. He blamed me for all of our problems sexually. I wasn't
"wild" enough. He actually threatened to leave if I didn't do some of
the things he wanted. When I did give in he wouldn't enjoy it because I
was only doing it to keep him from hounding me. He always talked of
suicide which made me feel responsible for trying to keep him happy.
The last 3-4 yrs we were together he pretty much slept upstairs on the
couch. During this time I allowed myself to become emotionally attached
to another man and for the first time actually felt pretty. This
attraction (nothing physical) ultimately caused a big fight in which he
left with a few clothes and a gun and was threatening to kill himself.
I went to my parents and never returned. We tried couples counselling
but that didn't work. It wasn't until I got into individual counseling
that I finally realized that this was emotional/verbal abuse. I had no
idea until that point. I knew something wasn't right but couldn't
pinpoint the problem. About a year after we separated he finally
admitted to having a serious addition to pornography. No wonder I
couldn never live up to his expectations! Needless to say I was in
shock. It had been going on for years and I had no clue. We have been
married 14yrs, and separated for 2 of those. Even though we went to
couples counseling, my heart wasn't in it. I felt as if a weight had
been lifted from me and I am now soaring the first time ever and I'm
loving it. He to apoligized for all the things he had done and even
though he may not emotionally/verbally abuse me anymore I can still see
the controlling behavior. He only went to a few counselling sessions 2
yrs ago and has just recently started back but I will have to say that
in the 2 yrs we have been separated I have not missed him one day. I
have missed having another person around. It can be very lonely but I
wouldn't trade the loneliness to have him back. I hope that things will
be better for you two. I dread going through a divorce and fear what he
may do to himself. I suppose I still feel guilty and somewhat
resposible for hurting him plus the fact that we are both Christians
but I can't go back. I can't even picture myself with him anymore. It
makes me cringe. Submit This is Steve to the Feb 05
6:05 am post,
I understand what you are saying. I need to own up to my abuse. My
rebuttle: You think we do this on purpose. We don't, or at least I
didn't. We do not have an agenda to get up in the morning and see how
much terror we can inflict on you wives. I really, honestly did not see
it. Please have mercy. And if you ever find that perfect husband out
there... I will be happy for you. I don't think your husband really
woke up. I want to go to counselling with my wife. I desire to see the
truth. If I am wrong on all counts... that's okay, Because I want the
TRUTH. But with the counselling I have had(and I have to go by myself,
because my wife refuses to go with me, why would a person refuse to go
to counselling??, if they had nothing to hide??) I also know there is a
martyr syndrome too! it does not mix very well with verbal abuse. Submit This is Steve again,
I am as guilty as anything. I did it. I am very ashamed for it. My poor
wife. If I had it all to do over again. I wish I knew then what I know
now. I am walking this tightrope trying to be this perfect man. I am
going to fall off of it. No matter how hard I try. But I am getting
better. I know it. I hope my wife can forgive me and see that I am
trying. I have no desire to get back into a relationship with her so I
can torment her some more. There is no manipulation with me writing
this. We are separated and I am sure she doesn't even read this site
and I am not using my real name. My thing is, if your spouse sees what
they have done and want help, why not let them prove it. But go real
slow. You drive and put the brakes on and let them off when you feel
safe. Submit I have no tact because I am a
verbal abuser, and I am not suppose to tell my wife these things, i am
suppose to pray for her and leave the results up to the Holy Spirit. He
is the enforcer. But you are not MY wife and you can get angry with me
if you want to. And it might do you good to see inside the thoughts of
a controlling person as it is for me to see inside the victim's mind.
you have an excuse to not do the right thing. you gave your heart to
another man, that is not right. it was worse than physical. you justify
it and wonder why your mate went bonkers. i know he was into porn, that
is not right either. it made a bad situation worse. and you being a
Christian. do you have peace with your decisions? you stated that you
didn't. or have you turned the conscience off and rationalized your bad
decisions? God is forgiving and He will forgive you for leaving. i have
found that God brings me back to place i have run from, in order for me
to walk the path that He prepared for me. God can also change desires.
So your husband makes you cringe. Your heart can change if you ask. You
are wanting to marry a healthy person, but the fact is they are seeking
a healthy person also.And most likely you will be attracted to the same
type of person that you are trying to get away from. why not forgive?
be healed together, grow together and fall back in love together? seek
Jesus, and see if it's not what He wants. forgive me Alan. it won't
happen again(words of a true verbal abuser)
Crusader Steve Submit Steve, I have some thoughts
for you. I recommend you write the e-mails but do not send them right
away. I have learned that the reactions from an abuser is really lack
of control of him/herself. There is a need to be heard - possibly
because you were not listened to early on in your life. It is possible
that these supressed emotions are now having a tantrum inside you and
you feel that you need to release them.
I remember thinking "If I dont say how I feel then I will explode".
With help from my therapist I can rationally think " how many times
have I actually exploded!". Please write your letters/e-mails then
without sending - walk away - meditate - take time to do somthing else.
Then return with calmness and read what you wrote. It is possible you
may be able to write more clearly rather than reacting.
It worked for me. Alan Submit To the person who posted
before Steve, Thank you for sharing. It sounds like you are in a good
place. From the sounds of it the abuse wasnt so covert! Being
controlled like that must have been a horrible existance for so many
years. Im reading a useful book called "The emotionall abusive
relationship - Beverly Engel" I dont know if you have read it, it gives
some great methods of dealing with the abuse and knowing which way to
go with it. No one can tell you what is right for you. Your decision to
stay away and be on your own is yours. From the sounds of it your doing
great. All the best with you and the great journey. Alan Submit Alan, There is hope! You may have practiced your harmful
communications until they became your normal way of expressing
your tho'ts,and ALONE it is near impossible to change. Please
be willing to humble yourself and ask God to forgive your behavior.
IN HIS STRENGTH AND UNCONDITIONAL LOVE YOU CAN CHANGE FROM THE INSIDE-OUT.
I live with a man who also can be wounding with his tongue.
Denial is his norm, he invalidates my hurt, sad feelings. I practice
forgiveness often, then work hard on getting over his abusiveness.
We pray for one another to be healed and start over. But owning it
is a start. Doing to her what/ how you want to be treated. If you are
a believer, pray for her to be restored. Love conquers ALL
Submit Alan, I have read the book and
found it to be excellent. So much so I have given 2 away to others. I
have also been in counseling for almost 2yrs to learn to deal with my
"life traps" which happens to be subjugation. (Basically I'm a
doormat!) : ) It sounds as though you are definantly on the right
track. The thing I found helpful was to highlight everything that
applied to my situation and do journeling. Good luck to you.
Steve, I had no excuse. It was a trap I fell into at a low moment just
as my husband did. He also became emotionally attracted to at least 2
other women throughout the marriage. During the last few years we were
together he had no desire to go to church and didn't understand why I
wanted to go. When he did go, I didn't feel free to worship the way I
would have liked for fear that he would ridicule me or give me "the
look". I have prayed for forgiveness and I have forgiven my husband but
I have no desire to go back into that situation. I also have no desire
to marry anyone else at this time. I enjoy being by myself. You
mentioned that the emotional attraction to another man was worse than
physical and so it is with emotional abuse. A bruise will go away but
the words are there forever. Submit Alan, I have read the book and
found it to be excellent. So much so I have given 2 away to others. I
have also been in counseling for almost 2yrs to learn to deal with my
"life traps" which happens to be subjugation. (Basically I'm a
doormat!) : ) It sounds as though you are definantly on the right
track. The thing I found helpful was to highlight everything that
applied to my situation and do journeling. Good luck to you.
Steve, I had no excuse. It was a trap I fell into at a low moment just
as my husband did. He also became emotionally attracted to at least 2
other women throughout the marriage. During the last few years we were
together he had no desire to go to church and didn't understand why I
wanted to go. When he did go, I didn't feel free to worship the way I
would have liked for fear that he would ridicule me or give me "the
look". I have prayed for forgiveness and I have forgiven my husband but
I have no desire to go back into that situation. I also have no desire
to marry anyone else at this time. I enjoy being by myself. You
mentioned that the emotional attraction to another man was worse than
physical and so it is with emotional abuse. A bruise will go away but
the words are there forever. Submit Alan, I have read the book and
found it to be excellent. So much so I have given 2 away to others. I
have also been in counseling for almost 2yrs to learn to deal with my
"life traps" which happens to be subjugation. (Basically I'm a
doormat!) : ) It sounds as though you are definantly on the right
track. The thing I found helpful was to highlight everything that
applied to my situation and do journeling. Good luck to you.
Submit Sorry for all the extra posts. Everytime I tried I would error messages and I didn't think they went through. OOPS! Submit I know that most abusers have
no idea that their behavior affects the ones they love so much. They
are just operating from a taught behavior they saw reflected in their
childhood. My husband asked me for divorce when he saw that I could not
do anything else to make our relationship right. It was my fault I
couldnt get it right, so he finally said he thought we should divorce
cause there wasnt anything else left to do. That was about the lowest
he could take me. I wasnt worth anything, didnt have the ability to
make things right, and so that was the only choice. The narcisstic
personality throws you away when you arent able to get it right. Cause
its all about you and what you arent/cant do to make things right. I
had done everything to make this relationship a good one. I told him I
guessed this is the only choice, cause he wasnt willing to do anything,
get counseling or try and see it through any other way. So, he went and
filed. On September 11th, 2001 while everyone else was re-examining
their family relationships, mine was bringing me over papers to sign to
move forward with the courts. It was absolutely the lowest thing he
could have done. Insensitive and uncaring. He acted like I had never
done anything right. I had done a lot right. Not to mention that he
didnt even think about the kids and their feelings at this horrible
time in the world events that were playing out. He was trying to
control the divorce to get everything. I couldnt even see it until the
very last week, and I came in and asserted myself like I had never done
before. You would have thought he had seen a ghost. The divorce went
through on the 18th of September 2001. He was still living in the
house. He had worn my boundaries so far down I couldnt even figure out
this crazy making behavior. Two weeks after that, he was still living
in the house, came in and told my daughter and I to get dressed, that
we were going shopping. I was scratching my head on this one. Then he
came over and looked me in the eye and said, "by the way, I am going
out with my old girlfriend from high school tonight. It's just dinner."
Well needless to say, I wasnt going shopping and when he told my
daughter he had a date, she was not going shopping either. That is when
I realized I needed serious counseling to see why I thought I deserved
to be treated with such dis-respect and my daughter, too. That is when
the counselor started discussing with me covert and overt abuse and the
poison that had been in the water all this time, 23 years. I was so sad
that I had not seen it. He got his jolly's in watching me be down,
hurt, and trying so hard to fix things. When the counselor started
working with me, he had to teach me boundaries and how to apply them to
him. He still today doesnt think he has done anything to create this
mess. He thinks he made the right choice, and continues to blame me for
everything around his friends. We have been divorced for 4 years. I
told my friends that he will continue to blame me for everything until
he finds another victim to start inflicting his blame on.
I dont wish that for anyone. My counselor says you have to get 1000
miles away from these people. They will still attempt to control you
when you arent even in the same house. It's amazing. Through good
boundary training he has lost almost all of his control. He still does
it through our kids, but they see it and realize it is about him, not
me. It is so sad, the lengths they will go to make you miserable. They
are so angry.
But they dont know it. I still dont blame him, cause I dont think they
really know what they are doing. They really cant see it in themselves,
unless they will open themselves up for examination. Most will not.
It's too painful. There are so many examples of this crazy making
behavior. Have you guys been told you have done these kinds of crazy
things??? It is so bizarre. Every year gets better and better. I am in
a healthy relationship today. I didnt open myself up for another dating
relationship for 4 years cause I knew I would attract the same type of
man. I am in a very healthy relationship now. It is absolutely amazing
the difference. I never thought it could happen, but good counseling
and openess to change, give great gifts. I can really see the
devastation my abusive relationship caused, especially after being in a
good healthy relationship.
Keep up the work, both victims and abusers. It will reap you a better
life.
Val Submit A Rude Awakening To Self
About 3 months ago I awakened to the fact that I have emotionally
abused my wife since we were married 17 years ago.
It has been subtle and completely unintentional, but just as damaging
none the less. I have actively stopped engaging in behavior that could
be invalidating, or abusive.
I will give some background because it totally fuels the problems we
have had and may serve to help someone else recognize and stop a
destructive
pattern before it gets this far.
I have a dominant personality and have always been self employed.
My wife is 9 years younger than me and didn’t have any experience
living on her own when we were married.
I have always employed a quick sarcastic wit. A bad habit with most of
my friends when I was growing up. My wife had been sexually abused as a
child,
I didn’t know this until a few years into our marriage.
This had the effect of causing her to “lose her voice” and put up a
protective shell which in her case was a tomboy like personality. In
John Gray’s book: “Men, Women and relationships” he outlines how
communication between men and women typically invalidates, disrespects
and demeans due to the differences in how men and women interpret each
others communication.
In our case this was magnified because I interpreted her tomboy like
mannerism and spoke to her as I would when talking with another man I
never realized how demeaning and invalidating
it was to my wife. Her lack of being able to voice real problems gave
me no indication of the hurt or depth of it, so it continued.
I have always been the type of person that will do whatever needs to
be done and I made most of the decisions, not realizing that I was
unconsciously invalidating her and controlling things in a stifling
way.
I am now very close to losing my wife due to my neglect of her
emotional well being.
We are seeking counseling and I am willing to lay down everything
for my wife, but she is so bound up in anger and resentment that she
doesn’t want to be near me. I am wounded to the core. I am a Christian
and believe in the covenant of marriage. I love my wife above
everything else in this life and the fact that I am the source of so
much of her pain is crushing to me. I have never wanted to control
everything and I don't harbor any anger. I have never actually yelled
at my wife, but my communication was was just as damaging. Like Alan, I
am taking full ownership of my actions and will continue to
unconditionally love my wife, pray for healing, seek counseling and
change my behavior. I will continue to read this list to learn more
about communicating with someone who has been hurt emotionally.
M
Submit The first step is recognizing
your behavior. Good for you and the others who want to take
responsibility. I cant speak for all spouses who have been abused, but
I will say, the first step is getting the abuser to acknowledge or just
be open to the possibility that they were abusive.
Mine (ex) did not, would not and wont. That is all I asked for him to
do. Divorce was easier for him than accepting responsibility. I believe
everyday that he is in so much pain, but cannot do the work to help
himself much less own his responsibilities to the family that is making
all of the changes cause he wont. Very sad. I had a friend of mine who
was in abusive relationship tell me that in 2000, after her husband had
demeaned or wounded her one more time verbally, that she sat down and
wrote out what she felt. First she said, "I am married to a man who
expects me to be perfect, even though he shows up everyday about as
imperfect as they come. He wants respect, but respects no one. He comes
in from work, everyday and asks, "what have you done to me today?". It
goes on and on. She placed this piece of paper in the drawer in her
desk, and in 2004 while cleaning out the drawer, she found it. She
realized that in 4 years there still had not been any change. The daily
grind on her was still there, each and every day. She finally left the
marriage and is on her way to divorce. If you have children and you
have been abusive, they will continue to struggle for years. They must
get help and you (abusers) must take responsibility and let them know
that your behavior was wrong toward their mother or father, and that
you are pretty sure they were also affected. You have to have
professional help work with the family. It cannot be done alone. When
fathers abuse mothers, it robs the family of security, love and
protection. Children will go to any extremes to act out through drugs,
alcohol, body piercing, cutting, bulimia, anorexia. It is a root cause.
ABUSE. It is the most devastating thing that can happen. I am asking
each and every one of you who have abusive nature to get the help you
need, become an advocate for stopping abuse and holding other men/women
accountable to their abusive nature. Abuse kills the spirit of a
person.
The family will be fractured forever if they dont seek help. Taking
responsibility will lift the burden of pain off the spouse and
children. You have to let your actions be your guide. You can say
words, but your actions will be the guide for a reuniting of the family
or not. It isnt about the abusive nature (you were taught wrong in your
upbringing), its about accepting responsibility and making the changes
necessary to demonstrate to your family that they matter above
everything else. And you are sorry, truly sorry for demonstrating
behavior that hurt them.
Take Care, Val Submit Hello M and Val
Sorry I have been out of touch. A death in the family pulled me away
for a little while.
M I support your search for growth. Val is right, the first step is
taking the responsiblility.
It has been 67 days without my wife and I know I always have a lot to
learn. It is true what Dr. Irene says, just when you think you have got
it and changed, you find a whole new set of beliefs to overcome. It has
been hard work. If you really want to change take your time with it.
Dont expect it to happen right away. Read the recommended books and
read them slowly. Just because you dont think you are angry doesnt mean
you are not seeply inside. It is hard to dig up the past and some say
not productive or necessary. I found it helped me to surface why I was
reacting in such foolish ways. The danger I guess is drowning in it.
Keep a level head if yo ucan and allow yourself to feel emotions you
might not have felt in a while. I want to ask you about one thought you
had. You mentioned you want to make the marriage work because of your
religion. While this is noble, I am wondering if you would still want
to make it work if you were not Christian? One way that I keep myself
in check is by only wanting change for the reason to change. To be a
better person for myself and the way I treat others. This may be the
only way to create a safe environment for others. Keep up the good
fight. Alan Submit Hey guys, I am so glad you
guys are taking the "higher road". Most abusers dont. They cant see it
or be open to it. Alan, you are right, you must just solely work on
yourself to be the best and learn from the experiences you have had.
Even if your wife cant or doesnt come back, you will be able to move
forward and have a very rich life. Doesnt seem that way, now, but it
will show up within a 3-5 year stretch. When you stop the behavior,
re-parent, re-program you will be a good mate to yourself and to others
cause you will have let go and released all of these falsehoods you
have been operating from. I have a friend who is just now seeing the
benefits of counseling. I told her to sit quietly and write a story
about her life.
Reading your story will help you identify the relationships you have
had in your life and then you can see the ones that were good, the ones
that caused you damage and the ones who modeled inappropriate behavior.
You can List out everything. Every wound, every hurt, every neglect.
Write about your parents and their relationship. Be very honest with
what you witnessed. How did your parents treat you. What was your dad
like. How did he treat your mother. Siblings?? What were those
relationships like. Then read it out loud. Feel the emotion. Describe
what you loved about your childhood, what was painful. Where did you
feel ignored, mis understood, etc. Read it out loud again, and feel the
pain. Cry it you have to. Allow yourself to be vulnerable in your pain.
If you can read it to your counselor they will be able to help you see
where you got programmed to be abusive. They can help you life the
pain, guilt, shame etc off of you. Also, you probably have been very
damaged in your soul. You probably wanted to be a good husband, father,
but you didnt have the right ingredients to give to the relationship.
You can be re-parented with your counselor. They will teach you what
you didnt see modeled in your family relationships. It will help you
get down the road further. Also, whoever wants to stay for religious
reasons?? It's not about religion. God wants you to be happy, live in
harmony and take responsibility for yourself. Then you will be a good
partner to your mate. He doesnt want you staying in your marriage cause
you made a promise to Him. Abusers cant love their partner cause they
dont love themselves. God wants you to love yourself as a child of His.
Then you can love your mate. Examine your spiritual heart. Religion is
something you practice in a set of beliefs. Never tell your mate that
she has to stay cause of a promise. God never wanted a man or woman to
stay in an abusive relationship. We only stay in marriages that are
lead by the plan of God. Abuse is not in His Word. Alan, I really
admire your tenacity. You will go a two steps forward and one step
back, but I promise you will find fruit if you keeping examining your
behavior. Remember! You are not a bad person. You are a great person
who is just on the wrong path. Find the right road, with some great
help, and you will find your gold at the end of the rainbow. It may not
be your wife, but guess what?? She may be there at the end when you get
to other side of that rainbow. Keep the faith. Faith is believing in
the things you cannot see. Look inside yourself and get real serious
with your core beliefs. Take Care! Be gentle with yourself. You will
get alot further in your healing and recovery. Val Submit Feb 20, 2006
Hi there, I too have started to read the book " The verbally Abusive
Realationship" by Patricia Evans. It has opened up my eyes. I knew that
I was in a abusive realtionship but denied it unitil I started reading
this book. I have been feeling like a looser, failure, ugley, no
confidence or self esteem. I always question myself like what did I do
wrong, what did I say wrong. I am now relizing that I am not the
problem and I some how have to keep telling myself that. It seems that
every time I try to have a conversation with my husband it ends up in a
fight.
We both differnet opinions but he seems to get really defensive over
it. I tell him that it is great we both have differnt opionions, why
cant we share them and maybe we can change each others mind. I respect
his opion, but he seems to get really defensive and wants to debat over
it. When I mean debate, his tone gets really loud. When his tone gets
loud, he intinates me. I dont want to fight over it but he seems like
its a war now. That's when the arguments starts. I dont know what to do
anymore as nothing seem to change it. Submit To the person who posted last.
Yes it does seem like you are in a verbally abusive relationship. Has
your husband read the book? It sounds like you will need to draw the
line with him. As it is stated in the books you will need to clearly
let him know that you will no longer tolerate his behaviour and make
the consequences very clear. By the time I heard my wife say it it was
too late. You will really need to ask yourself what your boundaries
are, the consequences and then stick to them. It will be a hard battle
and you will need to decided if your relationship is worth the fight.
Either way, it will take a lot of work to learn how not to fall into
patterns and respect and love yourself. Its a tough battle but worth
the fight. Id also advice getting on a chat group that will give you
support every time you need it. Hang in there. Alan Submit Hi Alan,
Wow. I was reading your email and started wondering if it was my own
husband who wrote it. I left my husband in November of 2005 because of
his verbal and emotional abuse and I'm still a mess inside. I keep
hanging onto the hope that he might actually, like you, begin to at
least show an interest in looking at the problem and trying to work on
it. Good for you. Good for your wife and your kids. You are brave to be
able to swallow your pride and look at the truth. I wish you the best.
I only wish my husband could be as brave as you.
Warm Regards,
Tammy Submit Thanks Tammy
We dont have kids but I do hope to someday. Im so glad I was awoken to
my behaviour before this crucial step in my life. Im sorry you had to
leave and that the pain continues. I am sure that it hurts more becasue
he will not take responsibility. Well, Im not sure if this helps my
wife more that I did. She is very hurt and confused. We have been able
to start a dialogue and I am greatful. Everything will take time. I
know we have love and I hope I will have the chance to show her that we
can live in a different relationship. I may not get the chance though.
This is the consequence of being ignorant to the abuse. It is a tough
lesson. Alan Submit Hey, Alan.
I read through most of the column here.
You’ve come a long way, baby! I stopped posting on the Catbox months
ago because I found I was feeding on “victim-speak.” Whatever you focus
on, you become. It DID help greatly for a while.
Synopsis of my story: After 14 years of marriage, I recognized that I
was married to a man who used verbal abuse to get his way. He was
frequently angry and critical. I felt like I could never please him. He
didn’t apologize or acknowledge apologies from me. I hid my frustration
for years. About a year ago tried counseling. He refused to continue
because he felt attacked.
I finally told him I was planning to leave. When I left, he was
shocked. I recommend you read the book, “Uncoupling” by D. Vaughn. It
explains the steps ANYONE goes through when making decisions to leave a
relationship. One of the steps is rewriting your own history. The
leaver has to justify ending the relationship, so they minimize the
good stuff and focus on the misery. When I believed my husband was
willing to own up to his part of our breakdown, I DID move back in. I
was reluctant, especially after reading the horror stories in the
Catbox. I did what many books, and my counselor, suggested. I acted the
part of a loving wife – at this point it was real make-believe. I also
called my husband on his unpleasant behavior. His reactions to me
during this time were the key to me staying. My husband honestly didn’t
recognize his VA patterns before I left. He did what WORKED. It worked
for his mother, so he adapted it in his life. He later admitted that
all he ever wanted was PEACE at any cost. (Ironic, eh?)
He’s working hard and I’ve grown a lot, too. I played a role in this
scenario. I’m a conflict-avoider BIG TIME. I will also omit details if
I think it will get me in hot water (aka. LIE.) I tend to be indirect
and sometimes take things too personally. I’ve almost finished
RE-rewriting my history. :) Helpful growth books:
“Boundaries” or “Boundaries in Marriage” (Townsend/Cloud)
“The five love languages” (Chapman)
A lot of verbally abusive patterns as described by Patricia Evans are
not categorized as verbal abuse in these books – they are common
patterns among married couples. An important point: If I hadn’t
understood my husband’s destructive behavior patterns to be VA, I would
never have mustered the courage to leave. I would still be confused and
miserable and trying to figure out what *I* was doing WRONG in our
relationship.
Duchess (Sally)
Submit Hey, Alan.
I read through most of the posts here.
You’ve come a long way, baby! I stopped posting on the Catbox months
ago because I found I was feeding on “victim-speak.” Whatever you focus
on, you become. The board was useful for a time, though.
Synopsis of my story: After 14 years of marriage, I recognized that I
was married to a man who used verbal abuse to get his way. He was
frequently angry and critical I felt like I could never please him. He
didn’t apologize or acknowledge apologies from me. I buried my
frustration for years. We tried counseling. He refused to continue
because he felt attacked.
I finally told him my plans to leave. When I left, he was shocked. I
recommend you read the book, “Uncoupling” by D. Vaughn. It explains the
steps ANYONE goes through when making decisions to leave a
relationship. One of the steps is rewriting your history. The leaver
has to justify ending the relationship, so he/she minimizes the good
stuff and focuses on the misery. When I believed my husband was willing
to own up to his part of our breakdown, I moved back in. I was
reluctant, especially after reading the horror stories in the Catbox. I
was VERY ANGRY. Against my better judgement, I did what many books, and
my counselor, suggested. I acted the part of a loving wife. I also
called my husband on his unpleasant behavior. His reactions to me
during this time were the key to me staying. My husband honestly didn’t
recognize his VA patterns before I left. He did what WORKED. It worked
for his mother, so he adapted it in his life. He later admitted that
all he ever wanted was PEACE at any cost. (Ironic, eh?)
He worked hard and I’ve grown a lot, too. I played a role in this
scenario. I’m a conflict-avoider BIG TIME. I will also omit details if
I think it will get me in hot water (aka LIE.) I tend to be indirect
and sometimes take things personally. I’ve almost finished RE-rewriting
my history. I can remember the good stuff again. :)
Helpful growth books:
“Boundaries” or “Boundaries in Marriage” (Townsend/Cloud)
“The five love languages” (Chapman)
These books talk about common destructive patterns among couples –
Patricia Evans categorizes many of them as abuse. An important point:
If I hadn’t understood my husband’s destructive behavior patterns to be
VA, I would never have mustered the courage to leave. I would still be
confused and miserable and trying to figure out what *I* was doing
WRONG in our relationship.
Now MY HUSBAND AND I can work on the relationship TOGETHER.
My best to both of you,
Duchess (Sally)
Submit Duchess
What you write here is extremely powerful. It is so rare to hear. My
ears have been filled with the labels and I have begun to think this is
what will remain. From what I gather you are saying you moved past
these labels and made your own pro active choice to continue a the
relationship!? So now that the boundaries are in place and all of the
behaviours are called on and out in the open are you finding a new
foundation for a relationship? Is it starting to feel right? You seem
to have so much positive strength in your wriitng. This is very
encouraging. Thank you for your support. I have taken responsibility
for what I have done and made steps towards healing. I have since
confronted my original abusers and have made much progress in my own
issues with my childhood. I believe I am so aware of my behaviours and
I have learned an entire new way to communicate. My wife and I have
talked and we are now listening to eachother. We are taking it slow and
respecting eachother. It feels new and fresh. The wounds are also very
fresh and I understand her hesitattion. I see her strength and her pain
and I know this will take a long time to make right. Either way we are
both strengthening our respect for ourselves and learning so much from
our past mistakes and history. Thank you for sharing your enlightening
story. Alan Submit I dont think all abusers are
pathalogial.
I definitely own up to being verbally abusive, but it was out of bad
habits in communication and ignorance. Throw in a heaping helping of
Tomboyish wife that can dish out the verbal sparring, but had a history
of emotional abuse as a child and you have an extremely destructive
scenario.
I was a master at "countering" discounting" "Jokes" and "critisizing"
This is inexcusable, but I never knew how damaging it was and my wife
was never able to communicate it effectively. In hindsight, she made
cutting remarks that indicated her disagreement, but she was never able
to sit down and discuss anything with me iin a way that my thick head
would grasp.
(a gentle word turns away wrath) Men are naturally combative and
generally don't respond well to combative women. This is no excuse, but
it is one of the differences in the way men and women percieve things.
Much of the verbal abuse talked about on the net can be attributed to
the differences in communication, so I think it is premature to have a
bail out mentality until you find out if your spouse is willing to step
up to the plate. The previous writer mentioned that the "leaver needs
to justfy their leaving" I believe that many of these forums feed the
fire before it is a fire. That being said, I have never met the man who
could stubbornly refuse to admit his mistakes and continue to treat
someone poorly after he has been made aware, so I have never seen a
real basket case. Unfortunately, my wife has rewritten history and is
only concentrating on the negative. She wants nothing to do with me and
we are about talking with a counselor about a trial separation with
strict rules. The sad thing is that my behaviour has really driven her
to a state of selfishness that is very uncharacteristic of her normal
self.
I had engaged in many controlling behaviors, but they were more out of
necessity, I have never desired the control, but nobody else took up
the slack, so I took control to make sure things got done...
I am not only willing to change, it took about 3 days for me to see
myself in this light and just stop engaging in that sort of
behavior....
Too little, too late maybe.....but please hold out a bit of hope for
your husbands and try to let them know how serious this is before you
hit the boiling point. It may take a couple encounters, we can be
slow....
Just a side note, I have never raised my voice to my wife or threatened
her with anything, so I can't really relate to those of you who are
dealing with angry people, I don't really know anger....
M.
Submit The sad thing is that my
behaviour has really driven her to a state of selfishness that is very
uncharacteristic of her normal self. I had engaged in many controlling
behaviors, but they were more out of necessity, I have never desired
the control, but nobody else took up the slack, so I took control to
make sure things got done... I am not only willing to change, it took
about 3 days for me to see myself in this light and just stop engaging
in that sort of behavior.... Too little, too late maybe.....but please
hold out a bit of hope for your husbands and try to let them know how
serious this is before you hit the boiling point. It may take a couple
encounters, we can be slow.... Just a side note, I have never raised my
voice to my wife or threatened her with anything, so I can't really
relate to those of you who are dealing with angry people, I don't
really know anger.... M
M - You say that you dont really know anger. Are you not angry towards
her new found selfishness? If I could give any comment it would be to
hold on and be patient. This is one of the most difficult things for us
controlling people to do. The advice I was given repetedly by others
was to not concentrate on her behaviour but only my own. Anything else
is controlling. ANd when I felt the urge to examine how she is and the
negative effects of it I was to take that energy and concentrate on
myself only. It is this need to figure things out that is damaging to
us. Allowing things to just "be" is a hard skill to come by but becomes
empowering in itself. I found the more I concentrated on myself the
more I was able to trust others and feel that I did not need to think
for anyone else. This I believe relieved pressure from my wife to sever
all ties and allowed her to be and feel the way she needs to. I dont
know how it will end up but it feel respectful. Dont give up on
yourself as I have heard this takes a long time to make right. Feel the
pain, keep working on yourself and have patience. Alan Submit The sad thing is that my
behaviour has really driven her to a state of selfishness that is very
uncharacteristic of her normal self. I had engaged in many controlling
behaviors, but they were more out of necessity, I have never desired
the control, but nobody else took up the slack, so I took control to
make sure things got done... I am not only willing to change, it took
about 3 days for me to see myself in this light and just stop engaging
in that sort of behavior.... Too little, too late maybe.....but please
hold out a bit of hope for your husbands and try to let them know how
serious this is before you hit the boiling point. It may take a couple
encounters, we can be slow.... Just a side note, I have never raised my
voice to my wife or threatened her with anything, so I can't really
relate to those of you who are dealing with angry people, I don't
really know anger.... M
M - You say that you dont really know anger. Are you not angry towards
her new found selfishness? If I could give any comment it would be to
hold on and be patient. This is one of the most difficult things for us
controlling people to do. The advice I was given repetedly by others
was to not concentrate on her behaviour but only my own. Anything else
is controlling. ANd when I felt the urge to examine how she is and the
negative effects of it I was to take that energy and concentrate on
myself only. It is this need to figure things out that is damaging to
us. Allowing things to just "be" is a hard skill to come by but becomes
empowering in itself. I found the more I concentrated on myself the
more I was able to trust others and feel that I did not need to think
for anyone else. This I believe relieved pressure from my wife to sever
all ties and allowed her to be and feel the way she needs to. I dont
know how it will end up but it feel respectful. Dont give up on
yourself as I have heard this takes a long time to make right. Feel the
pain, keep working on yourself and have patience. Alan Submit My God Alan I think Im married
to you. My husband is that same miserable person that I cringe
everytime he pulls in the driveway. I even bought Calgon one day trying
to get away. My boys hate him and we have been through recognition
before. I wish you luck changing but do not blame her if she refuses to
stick around and see if it worked for you. Personally I wouldnt suggest
wasting another moment of time for her to waste.I am talking from
experience. We need to live for us now you all have ran us long enough. Submit Hi Alan, in response to your
question, No I don't feel anger towards her newfound selfishness, I
feel remorse because I am a large part of driving her to this state.
There are a number of other factors, but none of that diminishes my
wrong actions. I wish I would have been confronted with some
information about the abusive speech a long time ago, I would have
recognized it then. I grew up with people who valued a quick cutting
wit and verbal sparring, it was a bad habit to be sure, but I had no
idea how damaging it could be or how many ways it could manifest
itself.
As soon as I saw it spelled out, I identified with it and new I was
wrong.
This is not a difficult choice, I am sure there will be more layers to
peel off, but I guess people engage in this behavior to different
degrees. I can't imagine someone denying their own bahavior when it is
clearly spelled out for them. There are only two choices, change or
stay stupid.
M. Submit Hi Alan, in response to your
question, No I don't feel anger towards her newfound selfishness, I
feel remorse because I am a large part of driving her to this state.
There are a number of other factors, but none of that diminishes my
wrong actions. I wish I would have been confronted with some
information about the abusive speech a long time ago, I would have
recognized it then. I grew up with people who valued a quick cutting
wit and verbal sparring, it was a bad habit to be sure, but I had no
idea how damaging it could be or how many ways it could manifest
itself.
As soon as I saw it spelled out, I identified with it and new I was
wrong.
This is not a difficult choice, I am sure there will be more layers to
peel off, but I guess people engage in this behavior to different
degrees. I can't imagine someone denying their own bahavior when it is
clearly spelled out for them. There are only two choices, change or
stay stupid.
M. Submit M
I know what you mean. I too was reacting in ways that were "normal".
Not being able to see the effects is the hard part - then it becomes
heard too late! Everyone has told me to concentrate on myself and give
it time. Any time I think nabout how to "fix it" I learn to change that
thought to what do I need to do to fix myself. It seems to be working.
At least it gets my mind off of what I cant control. I wish you the
best with this, you sound like your doing good things. Alan Submit Alan,
i think some of this is useful. Now you are awake. Don't cower down.
Grow in this new light. it seems to me that you reaize that you made
mistakes. kissing ass here is not going to change your marriage. my
suggestion is that you move on from this place. it has outlived it's
usefullness. time to move on. grow. enjoy time with yourself. find out
what you like and enjoy. focus on your career. do nice things for
people you don't know. pray for broken marriages. think positive
thoughts. stay away from the single women. don't give up on your
marriage, but you can't grovel in this muck. it's no good. ask Jesus to
forgive you and move on. He will. Jesus is going to be the one that
will heal you and your marriage. not rehashing every moment. ask Jesus
for forgiveness everytime one of those bad moments pops in your head.
ask Him to keep you humble. don't pursue your wife, but pray for her.
send nice things to her with no manipulation. give her space. pray you
will become better, looks like you already are, if there is any chance
for your wife to come back, it will be because of Him, the creator of
marriage. you now have an awesome vantage point. you see things most
married men don't see. use it and thank God for it. God bless. Steve. Submit Hi, Alan. Duchess here. You
seem to have some questions: *** From what I gather you are saying you
moved past these labels and made your own pro active choice to continue
the relationship!?*** Yes. I’ve moved past the label of “abuser.” It is
not healthy for either of us and only fuels MY discontent. There are so
many books that broach the subject as COMMON issues among couples. I
guess (MY opinion) what makes it ABUSE, is when the “abusive” party
REFUSES to EVER deal with these issues. Even in books that don’t call
it abuse, the authors say that it often takes a drastic measure to
“wake up” the offending spouse. *** So now that the boundaries are in
place and all of the behaviors are called on and out in the open are
you finding a new foundation for a relationship?*** I’m reading A LOT,
trying to figure out what went wrong. (That’s MY nature.) In my
IMMATURE reaction to his lack of respect, I sought attention elsewhere
(NOT a recommended course of action BTW), so we’re healing from that as
well. (In many ways, that part is harder.) My husband prefers not to
read about it -- he never read P.Evans' book. He saw himself in much of
what we read aloud together this summer. (Boundaries & Power of
Two) He said he felt sad and humbled. I’m learning how to communicate
more effectively. He is learning to listen less critically. He is on
depression meds. This helps! – he used to feel irritated ALL the time
and he reacted like I was the problem. Things aren’t perfect, just
BETTER. ***Is it starting to feel right? *** What is “right?” Things
were fine for my husband before. I feel like we’re moving in a better
direction. It has been 8 months, and I’m not looking at our situation
as “hopeless” anymore. We go to regular counseling. I still get
depressed sometimes. Our faith has helped us both. A fun, practical
thing you might want to try: I ordered (on ebay – new is expensive!)
the tape series’ “Light Her Fire” and “Light His Fire” by Dr. Ellen
Kreidman. Look it up on the ‘net. It’s practical. I haven’t listened to
the tape for men (nor has my husband!), but the women's tape makes
sense. Everyone is different. There ARE those that learn and move
forward. There are GREAT programs out there for marriage healing that
WORK. Not every "abusive" situation has to end in divorce. Duchess. Submit Hi Duchess
You touched on some issues that hit home with me. Sounds like we are in
a similar circumstance.. It sounds like you are very strong with your
own thoughts and you know what you want and don’t want.
Thanks again for sharing. You mentioned that there are marriage healing
programs that work. Have you tried some? Any suggestions for that?
Alan Submit Hello, again, Alan. Duchess
here. There ARE marriage programs. No, we did not attend anything
formal. We’re in couples counseling and I am reading everything
available. Right now, our schedules are such that carving out our
weekly date night is a challenge (job-related). We make that a
priority. My husband is willing to go but only if *I* really feel we
need it. I often get the feeling he’s going to do the minimum work
required, and, as long as I’M “happy,” things are OK by him. I read
about Retrouvaille (www.retrouvaille.org) and I contacted them. (A
friend from church attended and SHE appreciated it. Her husband, who
initiated the idea, didn’t get as much out of it. I’m not sure about
the marriage dynamics there – I don’t know him.) Another group is
Marriage Savers (www.marriagesavers.org). It is run through various
churches. Both organizations utilize couples who have gone through
SERIOUS marital issues and come out stronger. The “Light Her Fire/Light
His Fire” tape series CLAIMS to do the job as well. I suppose ANYTHING
can work, as long as both parties buy into it. D. Submit Alan-
I tried to get to the Yahoo Group- I_am_responsible@yahoo.com and I
looked in groups, I searched the web, I entered this in the address
bar...I can't find it (yes I did www. sometimes too-I tried) HELP! Submit For the person looking to get to the yahoo chat group - there is a link on this site!
go to:
http://drirene.com/support_lists.htm
And youll see the I_am_responsible group at the bottom of the page.
Just hit the link and subscribe! It is a wonderful group. Lots of
support and strong advice. We welcome you. Alan Submit Alan
I feel you my friend I did the same stupid things for 9 years and when
I saw that dead look in her eyes it went right to my soul!!!!
I don't know why I did it or why I could not stop myself when I felt it
boiling over but I think now I wanted her to think I was strong with no
weakness yet my biggest weakness was trying to pretend to be so strong!
I am in therapy now because being a mental abuser isn't a crime but
being alone with your thoughts is truely punishment.
You must now start the long hard search to find you and your smile and
I use that as my happy thought because when I find me and my smile boy
are the good times gonna roll!!! Hang in there Alan Life is like a
roller coaster lots of ups and downs but what a ride!!! Submit I wish my husband valued me as
much as you now value your estranged wife . My life is worth less than
the fair price on his used pick-up truck according to his actions and
"real" words - abusive. Tell your story to the many who are ruthless
towards their love ones and let them know this life IS precious and
unique. A Gift from God to be Cherished!! Submit I wanted to tell the group
that is still with us here that the hard work on myself has been worth
it. My wife came back last week! We are taking one day at a time and
going really slow. I have never been more "awake" and conscious of
every step that I make. My wife is also expressing her own
responsibility and this is healing for us as well. I want to thank
everyone for their wonderful support and toughness through the last 3
months. It has been the hardest 84 days of my life - but also starting
to see them as the most important and rewarding. I feel like I have
grown so much in such a short time. I feel like I can start to see
myself as an honorable person and build up my integrity again. Thank
you to Dr Laura and this community, I could not have gotten this far
without you. I hope my learning will touch others who have been/are in
our situation. It is tough to face but proving its worth a little bit
each day. Sincerely, Alan Submit I am coming to a impactual
self realization that I have been a verbal abusing critic of my mother
and most of the men I have ever dated. I did grow up in a verbally
abusive household with a father who wasn't satisfied with anything
primarily his own family. As I have grown, i've always had a strong
personality and have been a natural leader I am a force of nature kind
of person and i also have good boundaries. I see weakness in others as
a flaw and tend to gravitate towards others like me. I have kept a very
strong friendship with my former boyfriend. He has this amazing abilty
for unconditional love and I had this never ending list of complaints
and greivences towards he and his family. I see now that I have used
jabs, sarcasam and humor to say some below the belt things, ad nauseum.
I have said things that have made my boyfriends and mother feel so
badly about themselves because I felt we need to talk about things or I
had to be honest with them about things I was feeling. Then i just beat
the dead horse and execute my control issues. With my mother I find
myself critical of how she raised me, how she looks, how she is with
her grandchildren, her husband. I am constantly criticial and then tell
her that I love her. God, my mother must think I hate her. With men,
especailly my most recent ex, there is the never ending list, the
picking fights for no reason, challenging their strength. Then
disceting what they are eating and why they are friends with this or
that person, criticizing the places they like to socialize and what i
think of the people in it. Non- stop critcizing their home and how
their family annoys me. It's unbelievable to think that he loved me so
much, I used to ask him why because he also said that I made him feel
bad about himself. He would tell me that he just loved me for who I
was. Again, this was always shocking to me because I really have no
clue about how to love someone. I have been very loving and intimate
but I have often lost complete control of my mouth and have used my
words and intellect to overpower.
i need help. I'm not sure why my mother and boyfriends are the select
targets. I have been very hurtful in the past and I do not like this
quality in myself. I can not change that I am strong, forceful or have
strong personal opinions but I can not go on hurting these people I
love anymore.
I have never treated friends like this. My best girlfriends, i would
never treat them the way i have boyfriends and my mother. I have
employees and I go out of my way to speak to them with repsect and
conduct myself professionaly and maturely, I have friends with all
kinds of flaws and I wholeheartedly accept them and sometimes relish in
their quirks. If some of the people who know me saw how I treated my
own mother and the men in my life they would be ashamed of me. I am
afraid that if I continue this pattern with my family and boyfriends
that I will never be able to be happy in a relationship. I want to be
happy and have solid loving relationships. I want out of this hyper
crticial mode. Please give me some guidance. I am planning on seeing a
therapist to begin working out these issues.
Thanks Mechelle Submit I am coming to a impactual
self realization that I have been a verbal abusing critic of my mother
and most of the men I have ever dated. I did grow up in a verbally
abusive household with a father who wasn't satisfied with anything
primarily his own family. As I have grown, i've always had a strong
personality and have been a natural leader I am a force of nature kind
of person and i also have good boundaries. I see weakness in others as
a flaw and tend to gravitate towards others like me. I have kept a very
strong friendship with my former boyfriend. He has this amazing abilty
for unconditional love and I had this never ending list of complaints
and greivences towards he and his family. I see now that I have used
jabs, sarcasam and humor to say some below the belt things, ad nauseum.
I have said things that have made my boyfriends and mother feel so
badly about themselves because I felt we need to talk about things or I
had to be honest with them about things I was feeling. Then i just beat
the dead horse and execute my control issues. With my mother I find
myself critical of how she raised me, how she looks, how she is with
her grandchildren, her husband. I am constantly criticial and then tell
her that I love her. God, my mother must think I hate her. With men,
especailly my most recent ex, there is the never ending list, the
picking fights for no reason, challenging their strength. Then
disceting what they are eating and why they are friends with this or
that person, criticizing the places they like to socialize and what i
think of the people in it. Non- stop critcizing their home and how
their family annoys me. It's unbelievable to think that he loved me so
much, I used to ask him why because he also said that I made him feel
bad about himself. He would tell me that he just loved me for who I
was. Again, this was always shocking to me because I really have no
clue about how to love someone. I have been very loving and intimate
but I have often lost complete control of my mouth and have used my
words and intellect to overpower.
i need help. I'm not sure why my mother and boyfriends are the select
targets. I have been very hurtful in the past and I do not like this
quality in myself. I can not change that I am strong, forceful or have
strong personal opinions but I can not go on hurting these people I
love anymore.
I have never treated friends like this. My best girlfriends, i would
never treat them the way i have boyfriends and my mother. I have
employees and I go out of my way to speak to them with repsect and
conduct myself professionaly and maturely, I have friends with all
kinds of flaws and I wholeheartedly accept them and sometimes relish in
their quirks. If some of the people who know me saw how I treated my
own mother and the men in my life they would be ashamed of me. I am
afraid that if I continue this pattern with my family and boyfriends
that I will never be able to be happy in a relationship. I want to be
happy and have solid loving relationships. I want out of this hyper
crticial mode. Please give me some guidance. I am planning on seeing a
therapist to begin working out these issues.
Thanks Mechelle Submit Hi Mechelle. It is very hard
to admit what you did - I know! Putting yourself out there for people
to see inside you. Admitting these things takes a lot fo courage and
wanting to change is a huge step forward. I commend you for this. There
is a rocky road ahead but let me tell you it is very fullfilling. I
think admitting and realizing the wrong I had done was a huge hurdle to
overcome. My excuse was that my wife had to leave me for my eyes to
open. I dont know if something drastic like this happened to you but if
not it is amazing that you were able to look at yourself from the
outside - this is really hard to do! One thing that I learned from my
therapist that might help you is this. I asked him why was I able to be
kind and courteous to other people and treat my wife poorly. He said
"Because you knew that you could get away with it!" It is possible that
these patterns have been set up in your life and never questioned
strong enough for you to feel it was inapropriate. Something has
triggered this now. So hopefully the fact that you recognize it will be
a great starting point for you to start noticing what makes you start
to react. For me I was able to find what it was that was really
bothering me. I found things that stemmed back to childhood and learned
that I had behaviours that were taught and stuck with me into
adulthood. I found out that everytime I treated my wife poorly, I was
actually acting out my frustrations that I never was able to as a kid.
It sounds a little strange, but I was a 20-30 year old having tantrums
like a 6-10 year old would have. It was not untill I recognized this
and confronted myself that I was able to change it - and I believe it
is working! Hang in there - you have made the first step which is a
hard one. If you can find a good support group and listen to what
others that have been in your position or at the other end say! All the
best. Alan Submit Hi, my name is Silke.
After reading lots of posts here, I know fully understand, that I am
living too with an abusive husband. I always knew, that something was
not right in our marriage, but I always looked at me, to find the
problem. But now, after reading thoses posts, I know that I never had a
chance, to "fix" our relationship. To fully understand me, I have to
tell you the whole story.
I am originally from Germany, so please excuse my poor english.
I met my husband on the internet in january 2001. At this time I lived
alone, for almost 5 years, with my little son, had a job, a nice
apartment, a dog, well, everything you need to have a good life.
The only thing I missed was love. I mean love that can not be given by
a child. I needed someone to laugh, to talk and to dream with. I fell
in love with Mike. After almost 2 years talking, chatting, writing
letters and everything, he invited me to the USA, to visit him. First I
was afraid, my family warned me, my friends told me stories about
people who had bad experiences with Internet friends, but I already
missed Mike so much, it was as if I would know him already for years.
He even sent me the money to buy tickets for me and my son. And so I
came here, planned to stay for two weeks and go back to germany.
When I saw him the first time, he had a rose in his hand, I was so
happy to see him, everything was so easy, we hugged and he drove me to
his home.
We had a nice time. After two weeks he asked me to stay and I (stupid
as I am) said yes. Everything I had in germany was lost now, but my son
was happy here, and I was so in love, I payed the price. 4 weeks later
we got married in Las Vegas. Not a big thing, we didn't even have
rings, but that was ok for me, I know we didn't have money and Mike
said, we will marry again, when times are better, with rings and all. I
believed him.
From that time on it startet.
When he for the first time said to me, that I was good for nothing and
he doesn't need me for anything but sex, you can imagine how I felt. He
was the love of my life and I gave everything I had and then that. Now
we are married for almost 3 years, I got pregnant, my second son is now
1 year old. Mike never filed my papers, so my older son and I could
become citizens, I have no access to a phone (Mike has two), I am not
allowed to use his car, (I am to stupid to drive a car, he said, I had
a car in germany, never had an accident, but that doesn't count), his
two kids from a former marriage visit us 2 times a month, I have to
watch them, but everything I do is wrong, he is never home, not even
when his kids are here, he calls me lazy and stupid all the time,
threatens me to take my baby away when I am trying to leave, threatens
me with deportation, I gave birth to my baby at home, never saw a
doctor, I had a miscarriage this january and he just said, I was
halluzinating. The best comment he makes, when I say something is:
"Only because you think that, doesn't mean it is."
Till the baby was born he didn't give me any money, now I get enough to
get some diapers, milk and babyfood, sometimes I can't even pay the
school lunch for my older son.
When I try to talk with Mike about that, he ignores me, sometimes he
talks and talks, blames me for all the problems, and every time I say
something, he stands up and goes away. I tried to write him letters,
told him how unhappy I am and that I miss the love we had for each
other before, nothing worked.
He always gives me the feeling, that I didn't "earn" his love. Then I
tried to get help from his sister, but she always says, that she thinks
I don't want to change, I am always complaining and I don't apprecciate
what Mike is doing for me. If I would invest more effort than to
complain about everything, we could have a good marriage. I tried
everything I could think of, was nice, did everything he wanted, hoping
he would trust me again, I never cheated on him, never wasted money,
cleaned the house, cooked, did the laundry, watched his kids,
everything, but it was never enough.
Now I know, no matter what I am doing, he will never be satisfied. I
commit, I am not always nice, I yell at him, when he tries to go away,
I push him, when he says mean things over and over again, I get angry
when he disrespects me, sometimes I just can't handle it anymore. I am
not allowed to make my own decisions, when my son is sick and I let him
stay home for a day, I get in trouble. Since I have no phone, the
school calles Mike and when he comes home, he is already angry. Calls
my son a weekling or a liar, yells at me, and tells me I can only let
him stay home, when he broke his leg or can't walk anymore.
My son has a kidney problem. Every time he gets a fever, it could be a
kidney infection, so I am very afraid of that, since my son never
visited a doctor here and we don't have health insurance. When he has a
fever, I let him stay home and watch him. I can't see anything wrong
about that.
We almost fight every day. I just can't give up to fight for what I
think my rights are. He treats me like a slave, my son is his punchbag,
and the most trouble comes, when his other two kids are here.
He lets them do everything, they make a mess everywhere, they don't
like my food, they ignore me completely. Mike yells at me in front of
them, and one time he even beat me, because his son pretended to fell
down, when I tried to move him with my hand on the back of his head to
the kids room. Mike got so angry, told me I had beaten up his "baby",
(he is 5), and of course his "baby" now pretended to have pain in his
throat, cought and said he cannot swallow anymore, cried. Mike hit me
and pushed me on the floor, I had my baby in my arms who startet
crying. Then Mike bent my hands on my back and hit my head several
times on the floor, yelling I should never hit his "baby" again. He was
right next to his "baby" when that happend, he should have seen that I
rarely touched him, and what does that have to do with his throat? Then
the boy said, his face hurts, because he fell on his face, when I hit
him. Oh man, I cannot believe that. Mike beat me up in front of his
kids. That was the first time. And he still tells me I deserved it. The
second time was, when we were fighting again and he tried to get away
from me. I wanted an answer, he didn't talk with me for days again and
I was so angry. I grabbed his shirt and tried to stop him from running
away, he turned around, grabbed my neck, almost strangled me and
slammed my head against the wall. I couldn't swallow right for two
days. That was the second time. I don't want to know, how the next time
ends.
So at the end I have to do what he wants, because I cannot leave. I
have no contact to my family anymore, no friends here, no options.
My son is afraid of Mike, hides in his room, and Mike yells at me and
says:"See your son is as rotten as you, he can't even say HI, doesn't
like me, wants nothing to do with me..." and all that. But when my son
is near him, he doesn't like that either and sends him away or finds
something to hurt or blame him, tells him that he is lazy. Of course he
is hiding.
I don't know what to do. I am still hoping, something could help Mike.
He is a nice man, most of the time. He is always there for everyone who
needs help, but me.
Everyone knows him as Mr. Nice Guy. No one believes me, when I say how
he treats me, so I cannot expect help from anyone here.
I don't give up yet and hope for the best.
Silke
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