Comments to the Judge's Analysis of Language

Caution: While the Judge is a smart man, he is not a trained mental health professional. This site & Dr. Irene do not endorse "advice" given by the Judge. -Dr. Irene 12/6/99

Courtesy of Dr. Irene Matiatos Copyright© 1999-00. The material on this website may be distributed freely for non-commercial or educational purposes provided that author credit is given. For commercial distribution, please contact the author at Doc@drirene.com

"S1","B1"
"I definitely agree that their words often illustrate how they view the world. But, I learned to be cautious of his language-after several months of marital counseling, he had learned to sound empathic and understanding, and even occasionally respectful. But his words were a but a veneer hiding his true thoughts. Continuing the conversation or acting in a way that was right to me (but wasn't what he wanted me to do) usually exposed his focus on himself and his needs. For example, my occasional refusal to have sex was viewed as an unwieldiness to accommodate his needs. Likewise, refusing to consider having a child at 45 or raise a surrogate child was viewed as depriving him of a chance to have a child of his own. I was told that ""I was only interested in my career and didn't care if I was destroying his career because I was unwilling to continue teaching at a university where I had been dissatisfied for several years (he had access to the research library there and that mattered more than my unhappiness).

And because he was so afraid of being controlled, he assumed that all of my actions were motivated by a desire to gain control over his behavior or to have final decision-making power over some aspect of our life. It could be as mundane as a request to raise the shades when he was done napping (I love sunlight and the view from our bedroom window), to as emotionally charged as my occasionally refusal to have sex. For example, I was told that ""I was trying to have total control over our sex life,"" if I refused to have sex on a particular occasion. Never mind, that what I was feeling had nothing to do with power or control-I might have been satiated, angry at my partner, or just plain not in the mood. And the idea that I could decide things for myself, without his input was considered demeaning and disrespectful.

Everything is black and white-because shade of gray are too threatening. You're either for or against me, my information is superior and yours is inferior, I'm right and you're wrong, etc. Differing ideas and perspectives mean that someone is wrong, or doesn't really understand the situation (i.e., if you really understood what I was saying, you'd have to agree with me). Even the mildest of complaints ie ""dirty dishes laying on the counter really bug me, could you put them in the sink next time,"" was interpreted as a ""slashing attack.""

I learned to look at the patterns in what he said and did. And eventually left. ","

Submit"

" You have very eloquently articulated behavior that I have long referred to as the best defense is an offense. Growing up we labeled these types as instigators. When ever I see anyone have a raging fit or temper tantrum, a vision of them as a 2 year old brat in diapers comes to mind, and strikes me as pathetically sad. Then I find myself wanting to scold them and send them to their room. I wish people would realize when it comes to displays of temper tantrums and rage, that where there is smoke there is fire. And then after put out the fire, one must contend with all the water damage. Angry people have never brought anyone any lasting happiness. I think the key thing to avoiding getting involved with these types is to see these people as they really are, and not how you wish they were. This is disappointing in the short run, but very liberating in the long run. ","

Submit"

"Judge G: SAY AMEN SOMEBODY! You mention that the daily frustration is harder to take than the rages, and so it is. Being a strong, intelligent, somewhat arrogant, non-conforming academic, I vowed not to let myself be beaten down. That was, of course, after the early years of soul-searching -- how did I go so wrong to get this treatment? So I tried cajoling, coaxing, reasoning, shifting blame to his dysfunctional family and alcoholic father, then trying a ""taste of his own medicine"". At each turn, my terminology would change to reflect to ""phase of change"" I was in. And it ECHOED! When I found a word for his name-calling (I thought that defined the phenomenon), he began chanting ""STOP abusing me. Stop abusing me. Abuse. Abuse."" Now that we are in the midst of a divorce and the temporary injunction is in effect, ""HARASSMENT"" has entered his vocabulary. If I asked him what his plans were for the evening, he would say ""What are YOUR plans?"" (so he could counter them). Whatever to issue was that was bothering me, he would echo it back that HE had a problem with ME for that same thing (only BIGGER). Laundry. dishes. feeding the dog. ""no, YOU do it ______ first."" (fill in the blank with anything). Your example of ""Please don't raise your voice at me"" and the (screaming) response...on the weekend it would happen score of times!

The abuser believes in the adage ""the best defense is a good offense"". Whatever you ""accuse"" them of, they find some way to echo it back, find it in you, and, as you say...now they feel free to continue that action, because YOURS IS WORSE and it makes them mad!

When he no longer could be just mad, and in the midst of a manic (probably) episode got physical with me, I realized that staying together for our disabled son was no longer feasible, and planned divorce. He is still incredulous that I had planned it for 2 years! when he thought all along He was winning the war (of abuse)! So, Judge G, I wish you would be MY judge in my divorce from my husband...who fired the mediation lawyers because he felt they were on my side, ganging up on him, and not protecting his right to do absolutely what ever he wanted to do, despite the effect on his family.

Last exit for Mr. Excitable.",

"Submit"

"Dear Judge G.
I felt chills all over when reading this !
I feel a need to scream ""me too, me too"".
This is exactly what my ex-boyfriend used to do . Whenever I complained about something, he claimed (usually shouted) that I actually did the ""something"" myself, and the conversation focused on how bad he felt, and the reason I behaved so badly. For example, if he shouted at me, and used bad language, and I told him I feel disrespected , he would start claiming that I disrespect HIM, and we ended up discussing how bad HE feels when disrespected....
I just now am beginning to see the insanity of it all.
Thanks for sharing",

"Submit"

"Very perceptive, and I agree 100%. The sad part is that this unnatural behavior is sometimes reinforced by therapists. It is also taught in schools.
Now that we have defined the problem.... can we find a solution?
Policemen have protective gear... can we??","Submit"

"I'm afraid that my 15 year old son has modeled the behavior described from his father. I have pointed it out to him and sometimes it makes a difference. My son spends half of the time with my ex-husband, so it is hard to have a strong influence. Sometimes, I feel like I'm still living with my ex.","Submit"

"Wow, my husband and I had that exact conversation last night. I have been reading this website and the books that are recommended for about two months. My husband is a recovering abuser. I am very impressed with his progress, but he does slip back to the ""old ways"" occasionally. Last night he over rode a disciplinary decision I had made with our 6 year old. When I told him, in private, that what he had done was disrespectable to me, and discredited me to our son--he immediately had an example of how I had disrespected him. Now, I understand, that I never got to talk about the thing that was bothering me, because he changed the subject. And, I have always been confused about why he doesn't answer questions. In fact, I have pinned him down on that several times, now I understand why. Thanks-Judge..... you have turned on a major light for me!!!!!! And, if any body wants to know if an abuser can change--I can personally testify that IT CAN HAPPEN but not without a lot of work---on both sides. (And a lot of counseling and research. Thanks, to this site and all the people that contribute--we can help ourselves to help ourselves---(cause nobody else will or can) Signed--- We Are Winning! ","Submit"

"I recognize exactly what you are saying. The ""what about me? answer whenever I voice a complaint. Takes the focus off my pain & outs him in the center. I get it.","Submit"

"Your analysis of an abuser's method of talking are right on and to the point. I am/was an abuser in my marriage of 12 years and only realized the way I was abusing after my wife left and I woke up.
I can see many times that I spoke to my wife as you describe and used the methods you described to control the conversation. Very astute of you, Judge G. Regards, CC",

"Submit"

"you hit the nail right on the head or should i say we speak the same language!","Submit"
"","Submit"

"Judge G. is, as you mentioned, right on target. Also,
voice volume goes up, and eventually there is a verbal
or physical fight.

Abusive people, however, DO NOT ABUSE EVERYONE.
Other people usually respond in a way that makes the
abuse ineffective. The abusers have 'targets',
usually the husband or wife. The hidden fuel is LOVE.

If I did not love my wife, she could not abuse me.
That is why she cannot abuse the grocery clerk, even
if she wanted to. His reaction would possibly be
ignoring her, telling her to behave in the store, or
to get out.

Also, do abusers abuse in PUBLIC? Where there are
witnesses?

We need to work hard, and come up with some defense
mechanisms.","Submit"

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999

S1

I loved this kind of person. I co-dependently tried to give him the love he didn't get - either from his mother or from his so called lousy b**** x-wife. The image he portrayed to others (including me at one time) was so wonderful. I always felt jealous and hurt during our relationship/marriage that he was so nice to everyone else and verbally assaulting to me. It didn't culminate to its worst until the ring went on. Then the verbal attacks came - name calling and such. Before, it was just cutting me off in a monetary fashion just when I let myself trust him to help. Money was the big one. Tearing me down telling me things like "I will find myself a $50,000 a year woman. They are a dime a dozen. Things like "clothe your own ass, don't ask me for anything". Things like "I don't care about you, only my investments". On and on... He would be overly loving and then I knew the false dreams I had would shatter. Eventually I slept on one square foot of the side of our king bed never moving. Afraid (of WHAT, I didn't know). I just knew I felt "bad when I was with him". He boasted of having things his way. He'd tell me to get out the door if I didn't like it. It was horrendous when he drank. He has Hepatitis C and a failing liver. I still loved desperately and wanted to make him well. He has a 14 year old son who is falling in his footsteps - abusing girls at school and disrespecting others. Angry like him. This man seems almost proud of it. Says he learned it from him. Anyway, I left him finally when I realized I was acting out his anger for him. His passive/abusive/disrespectful acts were making me very very angry. Incidentally, he did this to his X and will do it again. We tried counseling and he left so angry that he got out of going again. Said the counselor was blaming him for everything. I would just love to say to his x wife that I am a victim of co-dependent misguided love too. He did it to me too. I have lost countless hours sleep and have become numb and sad. Why do we blame ourselves? This is our fault. Rise above and be free. DO NOT GO TO THE DESERT FOR WATER. We are worth more. The up and downs of living in verbal abuse are devastating. As painful as it is, I DO LOVE MYSELF - even if it means I must be alone. At least then, I have some peace. DON'T BECOME HIS NEXT VICTIM, HE IS QUITE CHARMING, until.....

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999

S1

Oh yes! Every word of this is true. Holding a normal conversation is almost impossible. Another trick is "You're interrupting me, let me finish", and them he goes on for another 30 minutes. When he finally winds down, he walks away and you have no chance to present your side. Another ploy is down-grading any authority figure you want to employ to make a point. Doctors are only concerned with making money, lawyers are all crooks, priests or ministers are money hungry are some of the things which effectively kill conversations.

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999

S1

Thank you, Judge G! I never knew to describe how the barrage of words between Ron and I was NOT communication! You have very clearly explained this phenomena that had me baffled. I was able to clearly state that I would not participate in any counseling sessions (we've been going for seven months) unless one issue was resolved. Of course, the usual run-around went on again, but I was able to quit being a participant in this demeaning experience. I don't think that in the 3 1/2 years of marriage that Ron has ever let me complete an entire thought. He always wants me to go first so he can just attack. Now I see that that is his only way of communicating and he certainly doesn't have any plans to change. So thank you for illuminating this aspect of our severely dysfunctional relationship. Mary

B1: Submit
Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999

S1

Thank you very much for your information on verbal/emotional abuse. It has helped me understand the awful situation that I have been in for many years. Keep your website going! Blessing, Pamela

B1: Submit
Date: Monday, November 15, 1999

S1

Wow. I feel a sense of relief to realize that my situation my be futile. How ironic that sounds. I see so clearly now the patterns you have outlined. The "echoing" pattern really hit me over the head. I have seen and experienced this from my husband and from my mother-in-law and I see so vividly how this pattern is perpetuated! After she had called me fat during one visit (I was five months pregnant) I was very hurt and tried to talk with her. I said "I don't feel that you respect of appreciate me." And she echoed back my exact words. I just clammed up, what can you say? I have thought that I just wasn't smart enough or didn't understand how to relate--these people are from another country, more educated and in one sense "worldly" than I am and I thought it may have been a lack on my part. But people are people and these problems are universal, so it seems. I think I see now that there is no way to communicate with someone who doesn't want to, no matter how much they may say they do, or that tells you, "You are the one who_______." I do NOT want my toddler son to perpetuate this sickness. Thanks for your powerful and clear words, to everyone on this site.

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999

S1

I have been married for 4 mos but lived with my husband for 9 yrs. I love him very much but he is a verbal abuser. After reading this article I realize my thoughts about it are true. Every time I ask for help I'm just blown off or else he tells me that I didn't tell him about something and I did. He has always told me that if something is not of particular interest to him he just doesn't listen to anyone. His kids have always told me they couldn't talk to him cause he doesn't listen to what they have to say. He has his mind made up before hand. Just like yesterday and today, he can't understand why I've been so hurt and it's all my fault, I'm sick I need to be in a nut ward (his words). A friend had invited us and his 35 yr old son who lives with us to breakfast yesterday morning to meet his sons, he came upstairs and told me him and JD (son) were going to breakfast at our friends, it was stag cause of his two boys, then our friends 5 yr old daughter called to see if I was coming too. He made me feel like he doesn't want to be with me just JD. Every time we get into an argument it's always all my fault, I treat everyone like a dog. How by asking for help? Complaining when I don't get any? I just had a hysterectomy and am not suppose to carry anything, but I asked for one of them to please carry it up two flights of stairs a week ago and neither of them would do it. I finally did it myself today. Was that treating someone like a dog. He always tells me don't be doing that, I'll get it for you. When, next year? He called me twice from the cell yesterday and said I refused to answer the phone or that I was on the phone all day and I only had one call and the other time I was in the tub and didn't get out to answer it, but it was my fault he couldn't get a hold of me to let me know him and JD wanted to go motor cycle riding and did I want to go. I had told him I had to show a house (rental) at three. We also have an answer machine but he wouldn't leave a message until the call after they were gone. Yes, I lose my temper and yell after so long of his NOT ANSWERING or TALKING IN RIDDLES where only he knows what he's talking about. He always says "I made myself clear." I never know what he is talking about and he refuses to explain. He makes me feel unwanted and wanted at the same time. Like he refuses to get rid of his ex-deceased wife's wall hangings and so forth. That really hurts me. There marriage was a pure h with both of them cheating on each other. He puts on the perfect front to other people making me out to be the one at fault. I never get a personal complement from him, even though I give him complements all the time unless he forces me to lose my temper. He tells me I can talk to him, ha, conversation takes two or more, right? Sometimes I really wonder why I love him. If I try to voice how I feel, he starts in with you, you, you did this, you did that to me, patronizing me, I don't deserve to be married, I don't deserve to be loved. Everything is all my fault. I guess I just won't talk anymore, what's the point? Sorry for rambling on.

B1: Submit
Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999

S1

My husband has been reading all of this and has led me to it. I find it very challenging to admit my wrongs but am will to see it. What I also find interesting is that I'm involved with someone who fits the profile as well of an abuser. How do you describe this kind of relationship. How is help sought when two abusers need help, but only one will admit their role? My husband sent me to this site and thankfully I have read bits of myself in different profiles but will it be called a "trick" to try to get help for him too? Perhaps getting help for myself and letting him prove himself out is the answer. Catherine

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, November 13, 1999

S1

Thank you. I live with a person like you describe, and yes you are so right, It is a lonely and frustrating life. My husband has trained our son to be just as abusive as him. They gang up on me. My son is fifteen. My codependency has reached new heights with my son and I am just realizing the depth of my involvement is this sick home I live in. Thank you for your article, it helped me realize I am not crazy. That is how abusive people like to make you feel.

sue

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, November 13, 1999

S1

This article was wonderful! It really helped me to see the pattern I have been living with for 18 years and the blame I have been living with all that time. I lived with someone who never gave answers, always said "you do that too and literally blamed me for everything to the point that they needed revenge on me and got it in terrible ways, hurting our children greatly and to this day saying they had to do the things they did because I made them. Reading articles like this gives me increased, concrete reality checks and also helps to reinforce why I did not understand what was happening a great deal of the time. Thank you.

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, November 13, 1999

S1

I'm a 42 yr old male and I'm married with a 2 yr old daughter. My wife's verbal attacks follow exactly what is described in the letter. She can't hurt me physically but constantly calls me names , tries to provoke me even when I try to walk away. If I walk away I'm a "wimp" or "spineless." We tried marriage counseling and she ambushed me and tried to make me look like the abuser. The thing that is heart wrenching to me is that this is being done in front of a little child who I'm afraid is learning this behavior. I'm in this situation only for my daughter and I refuse to leave because she means so much to me. Thanks for this letter and this site, it is consoling to hear of others and become aware of this type of behavior.

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, November 13, 1999

S1

I just found your web site yesterday , but I'm already hooked. I was in an abusive relationship and your article on An Analysis of the Abusers Language really hit home. Thanks for all the great articles.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, November 12, 1999

S1

Boy is all this true. Communicating with an abuser is fruitless.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, November 12, 1999

S1

Bravo! It is a very scary place to be in once you are out of denial. Because then you begin to identify what is happening. Behaviors that seemed vaguely wrong or frustrating are clearly seen as destructive. It is so true that their language is all their own. My husband loves to tell me there is something wrong with me at the core of my being - but his "language" proves that his thinking and insecurities are the real problem.

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, November 12, 1999

S1

Every single article, book and/or personal testimony I read takes me that one step further out of the fog. It is so very true, like some toxic osmosis process, I became so endured to the incessant and often subtle verbal denigration that I no longer recognized - except in my body. It gave the signals. The lack of sleep, the constant tenseness and the often slurred speech in her presence, these all told me that the camel was packing one huge load of straw. All I can say for now is thank God I failed in her eyes and she left for yet another lover. She is his problem now. There must be a God!

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999

S1

I am just learning about verbal abuse. I was so impressed by the "echoing" part - that's what my husband does ALL the time, even in front of counselors - drives me nuts! However, I'm not sure that I am codependent - I have some tendencies but have tried to communicate as above and met with the echoing thing. It has been confusing and frustrating to me, but as long as I am stating my needs and not covering up his actions - is that codependency? I realize there has to be some codependency in order for him to continue I guess but the overt covering up and putting up with bad behavior just for a warm body over NO body - I'm just not sure.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999

S1

I commend Judge G. This article had a profound effect on me. Nice writing and thanks for sharing. In my struggle with the end stages of yet another abusive relationship, I hit this site often to look for any new items or when I need a pick me up. (I've already printed out the entire contents and put it in a notebook - thank you Dr. Irene for this site!).

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999

S1

how do you deal with the guilt, etc. when you are trying to set boundaries for the first time? I recently left my husband who is an abuser and of course I'm getting the honeymoon period "I'm sorry's and "I'm going to change", etc. I realize this is probably crap, but still he makes me feel so guilty and almost start to doubt myself and that I'm doing the right thing.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999

S1

I live in New York State and I can't find an attorney that will file for divorce on grounds of verbal abuse. They all say it is too difficult to prove. But, this is the sole reason I feel I need to leave my husband.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999

S1

I have a comment here. I can identify with the patterns you described. I am wondering if what I struggle with with my H is part of the same language pattern. He constantly "me too's" me even about good feelings. At first I thought "Wow we have so much in common", but it soon got to feel like I wasn't being heard and everything was refocused on him. Sometimes I feel like I am suffocating. Yet I keep going desperately back to him trying to get him to hear me because I so long to be close to him. It is just getting worse and worse. If I say I would like to go to school he will say he too would like to go. What ever I say or do seems to trigger some lost desire in him. But I feel now like I have totally lost myself in his needs. If I say I am sad he will be sadder. If I get angry he will be more angry. He says I am too emotionally draining for him. We are separated. He says he wants me to be more friendly, while he can just ignore that I even exist. I think he needs me to make the relat. totally safe and non challenging for him. Everything I do is seen as too controlling. If I get upset about anything he is gone for weeks or forever. I wonder if this is part of what you are saying. I am trying so hard to understand what is happening to me. This is very helpful! Jessica

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999

S1

I wish my communication students could articulate abusive language as well and as 'on the mark' as you did. It is true (sadly) that experience is the best teacher (and I say that as a recovering codependent myself). If you don't mind, I'm going to add something to your insightful observations.

Not only does the abuser use hurtful messages as part of his/her interpersonal communication style, they are also talented imposters. What I denied in my own relationship is that abusers, because of their narcissistic personalities, can initially be the most charming, seductive, romantic, and attentive people you will ever meet. They are frequently witty, intelligent, and shrouded in an appealing mystery that a romantic like me found simply irresistible. It is only after you are 'hooked' and believe that you have fallen in love with them (and they know, by experience, how to gauge the intensity of your emotion) that the 'language' you refer to begins to surface. My ex gave me many hints at what was coming very early in the relationship, and I would postulate that most partners do. The 'push-pull' behavior alluded to in other emails (or what I call the 'lick and bite" behavior) surfaced early-- and I knew it. And yes, the 'bites' are linguistic-- character-attack, constant criticism, lots of projection (YOU do this, YOU act this way, etc)-- all there. And then the charm, the romance, the seduction and attention all return when they think they'll lose you-- but rarely an apology comes with it. In my own relationship, I even vocalized to my friends that when the relationship was 'going well' ( meaning, he was in the 'licking' cycle) I was scared to death because I knew he would soon get scared, feel vulnerable, and 'bite' again soon--and he always did. Crazy-making at its best, or worst. The point is that I knew it in my gut within two months of meeting him but denied it in my heart for several years.

In the rare moments of healthy communication between us, he often said 'it's not about you, it's about me. I can't love the way you do." When someone says that to you: BELIEVE IT. They know. As codependent caretakers, we sometimes believe that our love will heal their hurts, but no one, as I discovered, has the ability to do that for anyone. And when we try, the abusive language that is designed to shred our self-esteem (because they have none and don't want you to have any either) gives them the power-rush that they cannot get elsewhere. You are absolutely correct when you say that the abuser's language coveys the opposite of what they are thinking-- because what they really are thinking is: OH GOD! You're getting too close to me, and you're scaring me to death! I have to respond to how I feel about you. NO WAY will I do that!! I don't want to want you, so I need to push you away so that I am safe from what YOU can do to ME.

Finally, communication, especially its darker side, is a pattern developed over time, and as such probably means that you are not the first partner to be verbally and emotionally abused by this person. When they disclose information about their prior relationships, including their family: LISTEN. If you detect an abusive pattern, know that if you don't run for the nearest exit, you will likely be the next on on the list-- even when they themselves are in the 'falling in love' stage. And, probably you will not be the last, either.

Language is about identity. I try to remember during the times I am feeling badly that in time I will recover from this experience and go on to hopefully enjoy a healthier balanced relationship where we both give, and we both receive. Imagine how conflicted and shattered the abuser must feel, knowing that they are unable to do so, that they will always feel betrayed because the one thing we all need in our lives-- people who care-- is by their own doing, forever closed to them. Yes, we may feel pain now, but it is the pain of recovery! It will eventually subside as we come to terms with our own patterns, lost trust, and wounded psyches. Their pain, on the other hand, is mired in issues too deep (most of the time) to ever move them from their own darkness. I don't hate my ex-partner any more... I just feel pity at all his lost potential to enjoy the human experience. Communication is two-way, and we were both responsible for what we did to ourselves. If we are on this web site, we have CHOSEN to become healthy! Sadly for them, they cannot.

B1: Submit
Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1999

S1

Dr Irene: Thank you very much for this information...I understand what this is all about.....now. And it took me many years to forgive myself my failure to some how, some way meet the need of my ex-husband where I lived with the damn if you do and damned if you don't situation. I appreciated you simple (MeMe) insert. I did get a divorce because I didn't meet my husband need and it took me years to say no I didn't meet my husbands need now what is wrong with a person who think his need should be met (which I think is appropriate request) without one of those need to be the need to meet the needs and well being of ones family. I didn't mean to get into my story just to say Thank you for your response....after many years of being a single parent of two children (doing the best I could and never having the satisfaction of doing it the way I would have like to have done it...but learning to do the best I could with what I had to work with....a father that shamelessly abandoned his children and was a "dead beat" father I still believe that God does work in your life to support good intentions even when things don't work out the way you had originally hoped for...doing the right thing is easy if you know what it is....knowing the right thing to do is the hard part and one again you have confirmed that sometimes leaving the battlefield in a battle you can't win at is the only right thing to do...and the decision to not learn the "language" is the only way to survive. Love may solve all problems but only if it's a two way street. Again THANK YOU.

B1: Submit
Date: Saturday, November 20, 1999

S1

I have just read Judge G's WONDERFUL, INSIGHTFUL, HELPFUL article on language. I feel I have just unlocked a ball and chain from my ankle. My husband is a highly intelligent, intellectual type who uses all these manipulations to keep everything under his control. Every point Judge G has mentioned (regarding echoing, interrupting, never answering a question etc) I have raised with him, usually in the middle of the drama, to no avail. In the end I grow more frustrated, feel more controlled, finally lose my inner core and go nuts. Then he would have a self-satisfied look on his face and usually refer to the pain I have within me that I have to deal with. My question is, what is the appropriate way to handle language as a control so that it doesn't get to the point where I explode? Any suggestions would be welcome.

B1: Submit
Date: Thursday, November 18, 1999

S1

For years I have tried to make sense of talking in circles. When we finished having a "discussion" I always felt more confused as to what we were talking about. When I read Patricia Evans books on Verbally Abuse,,, I thought this is my life story. I have been married for l8 yrs.....But getting a divorce now. He had become very threatening and even extremely mean. So I filed and he was shocked. He later said during the "honeymoon stage" that he never thought I would do it.... So,,,,now that we have been to court waiting for ruling.....and he sees I'm serious......He has turned very vindictive, which I knew he would. After the judges ruling,,,,,I'm afraid I will have to get a restraining order.....Well I'm 40 and starting over but it will be better......I have to give myself pep talks to convince myself that I can do this for me and my kids. My address is ,,,,,write me sometime. Marla

B1: Submit
Date: Friday, December 24, 1999

S1

This seems to be right on target. I am just learning that my marriage of nearly 15 years has been an abusive one. I have struggled with Major Depression since I was a teen, and despite years of therapy and medications am still struggling. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that if I stay in this relationship my depression will never end. Here's a note you might find interesting - my husband finally agreed to go to marriage counseling after I'd asked for nearly 8 years. He stated that he believes that 95% of the problems in the marriage are due to my depression. Oh, and we had to unschedule our first appointment with the marriage counselor because we couldn't afford it. - Saharagirl

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Date: Thursday, December 23, 1999

S1

My husband verbal abuse me and my two kids since we enter in the military and what I had read here tonight sounds exactly what I got. I and the kids finally moved away from him and abuse he gave us. I went through it before and this is the last time. My kids and I don't need him anymore.

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Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999

S1

I have problems with putdowns disguised as jokes: Little, cutting comments that don't make you feel good, but you think you're supposed to accept them. The guy says 'You're too sensitive" or "I was only kidding/joking". Or being afraid to ask the guy a question because you know he will attack you for not knowing something - "You obviously don't know anything" or a tone that implies "You didn't know that? You should know that! What are you stupid?" Can someone tell me how to deal with this, and how to stop attracting men who speak to me like this? I have a feeling it's about changing the way I think and speak to MYSELF. I tend to be very harsh on myself. Maybe that is what is attracting men who speak like this ? Anyone have some feedback?

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Date: Sunday, December 19, 1999

S1

I have been married to an abuser for 10 years now because he made me feel that no other man would want me. I am getting divorced. Thank you for showing me the signs of abuse that I was not recognizing. Gena

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Date: Saturday, February 12, 2000

S1

This is absolutely one of the best things I've read. The Judge may not be a trained professional, but if he ever needs a second profession, he's got the abusive relationship down pact. I swear, I just read all about my relationship with my husband. I mean, almost word for word. I want to thank the Judge for this, because it made my heart feel good (and I bet many others in these relationships) to hear someone so eloquently and perfectly describe what we are going through, and to, in a way, keep us from going crazy by letting us know that it really isn't us. Like I said, this is the best I've read on this site.

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Date: Saturday, February 12, 2000

S1

I agree with the Judge. I would like to add another tidbit.. I also agree that it is all about intimacy and feeling threatened. I have known and been friends with a man for eight years. A few years ago we started dating and he became very controlling and I , being the independent type that I am would break it off. Then sure enough he would beg and apologize and plead to try again. This last time we were becoming very intimate, and things were going very well except paralling this was a marked increase in abusive language. Jokes at my expense followed by a "just kidding" " oh come on you know I am kidding" as if that stops the hurt caused by the remark. I have seen him laugh to himself at his sadistic feats. He uses the "Let me finish!" line all the time then goes on for another 30 mins. demeaning remarks, disrespectful behavior and an occasional compliment just so that you start to think its you not him. All this as the relationship becomes more intimate and serious. Its as if to say " go ahead, love me and in turn I will abuse you for it because I cant be that vulnerable.. I might lose control. I will invalidate you, until you are a shell of your former self. The more you love me the more I will abuse you. The more you distance yourself to me the more loving I will be to you." That's really the language... Fascinating.... I thank you for your article. I am off to find a partner who isn't afraid to give and receive love.

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Date: Saturday, February 12, 2000

S1

WOW! WOW! WOW! I cannot believe what I just read. I am.... almost without words. I will have to comment with a Thank You for now.

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Date: Saturday, February 12, 2000

S1

Bravo! Beautifully stated judge! You put your finger right on an insidious, frustrating, mind boggling situation.

thank you lee :)

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Date: Friday, February 11, 2000

S1

I have recently left an abusive relationship with my husband. What you have said is soooo correct. He is a confirmed abuser and I find it very interesting how he now tells me that I am controlling, abusive and paranoid. How well he describes himself. At first I found his comments disconcerting...I wonder if this means on some level in his mind that he acknowledges what he is?

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Date: Thursday, February 10, 2000

S1

I can't believe what I'm reading. The incidents described on the web-site are so real to me it's scary. I am finally convinced how terribly I've been abused for the past year and a half. It is all about CONTROL. My abuser has had me convinced that I have caused all of the problems in the relationship

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Date: Wednesday, February 09, 2000

S1

Hello, I am in a marriage and we have a 7 year old son. In the past year and a half I learned my husband had an affair and I found out through someone else. I have tried to live with this and give another chance. Well, since then, he is very controlling and swears in the presence of my son, and when he can't get the response he wants from me, he tells me to get the f out in front of our son. This has happened a lot of times in the past year and a half. I have gone to therapy for a lot of this, and don't feel better at all. He, my husband, refuses to go. I am at my wits end and am reaching out wherever I can. I have not enough money to move, but I will go. I can't live this way and neither can my son. Do you have any advice???? Susan

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Date: Tuesday, February 08, 2000

S1

My husband (verbal abuser) often states that he is frustrated because I do not share my thoughts and feelings. The reason I do not communicate with him his because I know it will make no difference, he really does not want to hear what I have to say.

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Date: Tuesday, February 08, 2000

S1

This seems like a good source of information on verbal abuse that the general public can understand, but verbal abuse related to children's' development would also be a good idea.

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Date: Monday, February 07, 2000

S1

Actually, I have a different story. My A actually started the argument after some time. The things that were bothering me became his problem.

At one point he started to tell me how I was ruining him financially, when we were doing great. I didn't put it together until the next time I had a point blank talk about his continuing verbal abuse. He turned around and said, "Yes", you have to put up with my abuse, but I have to put up with your financial inadequacies!". I could not believe my ears. He told me that it hurt him the same if I spent an extra ten dollars on groceries as it did when he raged on me.

Talk about being in their own reality. So it doesn't matter if they say it first, and you seem to be echoing with some of these people. If I got sick, he would always get sick after me, even though he wasn't sick most of the time. Laura

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Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000

S1

Right on, Judge! I've experienced all of what you have said "in spades". My partner took glee in accusing ME that it was my fault. "I" needed to try harder to communicate, so "he could understand", and therefore if he "didn't understand" it was because "I" had not communicated with him sufficiently. As long as he could hide behind the guise of "not understanding" that gave him a pseudo-innocence in any of the matters I tried to communicate. But as you so deftly pointed out, his whole intent is to block communication altogether. My desperate attempts repeatedly to try harder and harder to effectively communicate with him seem hilarious and pathetic in this light. Once I finally decided in my own heart I no longer cared about having a relationship with him, it was a real revelation to me to see I had little trouble "communicating" with him in his own "language" because now my goal was the very opposite of being intimate anymore; I wanted to get away and stay away. That's when I realized all his behavior showed me he never cared about having a real relationship from the beginning.

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Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000

S1

I agree with the Judge's analysis. I would like to add a few other major similarities I have noticed between my mother and my former employer of 3.5 months. Both of these people maintained control by means of verbal abuse. It is ironic that my mother was uneducated, overweight, poor and my employer was the exact opposite.

1. Both were paranoid. My mother didn't believe my friend who said he had an Eddie Bauer tent so she called all over Ontario trying to find someone who sold them. Unfortunately, Eddie Bauer was predominantly in American stores at the time. She told me that he was a liar. My employer accused me of having a job interview when I was half an hour late one morning. Ironically, I had stayed up all night working on something for him.

2. Delusional thoughts are very predominant. My mother thinks that by going to work she would pay more tax, so she basically did "child care" all her life. She threw the kids in the basement for at least 4 hours and then talked on the telephone to anybody that would listen to her say that the entire world was a bunch of a--holes. My mother thinks that you are automatically charged interest on all credit card purchases. My boss had 20 employees working for him before his divorce. In the interview, I confronted him about his notion that he had the same number of clients but only 2 staff. It wasn't until 2 months later that he admitted that he had lost about a third of his clients. In his fits of rage, he would yell "Get the entire staff in here now". (There was only 3 of us.)

3. Sense of Timeline is very weak. At least 5 years after I had broken up with my boyfriend, she was still saying things about him and I. She had not moved on. My boss would expect things to be done even if the software had not been released yet and there was no way in hell I could do it.

4. Rare appearance of being mentally healthy - Denial is a common word in the verbal abuse community. But I really have to question whether it is denial or whether these fits of anger etc cause a split personality. My mother would always deny she had called me a slut, loser, schizo etc even in her fit of rage. One day, my boss called at least 5 times and put both the staff on the speaker phone and asked us about what was left on his schedule to do. By the fifth time, we both decided that the man was not in his right mind. It was very obsessive behaviour. We both found jobs soon after.

I had another female boss who I have to admit did some things that were very manipulating. I was in a conflict management seminar and the book described game upmanship behaviour. The female boss really fell into this category. Reading through Evans books, I can see other traits that are abusive. For instance, she thought she was right all the time, she purposely placed me at the other end of the building even though everybody else was across from their boss, she told me to get a life if I was interested in a television show, she said that I and my subordinate were anal. I had passed on some information to someone outside my chain of command and I was given a 10 minute lecture that this was not appropriate behaviour. The matter was still not resolved six months later. She said that I should take a time management course for my personal life. This really was absurd because I single handedly had to run the accounting department for a month while I was finishing off my CMA designation. The year before that I was in the CMA program and taking two courses at university. I had also managed to write a screenplay which I had naively sent to Kevin Costner. She weighed about 250 pounds and made about $100,000. The first three months I was there she had a few suits that were missing buttons so she was always showing off her stomach. She also constantly wore spandex. She also became pregnant which made matters worse. I didn't like her. But I didn't think she was abusive until I started reading the verbal abuse material and big ideas started jumping out at me. For me, the big thing was that she showed no signs of mental illness. I think I will associate verbal abuse with mental illness for quite some time. My father was hospitalized and is still on drugs for schizophrenia. Unfortunately, my mother won't go see a counselor. I have asked. I haven't seen her or any of my family now for a few years. I am slowly regaining control over my life for probably the third and hopefully final time. I can't thank you and this community enough for helping me over the past years. Sincerely, Fandango

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Date: Sunday, January 30, 2000

S1

wow, thanks for this page. I've lived with a verbally abusive man for 10 years and you are right, it's not the anger or rage that scares me, it IS the lack of communication. I feel as though he is running circles around me, then runs away leaving me frustrated and angry with myself. I am separating from this man and he finds buttons to push to keep me fearful. I'm in counseling and I want to be healthy again. Thanks

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Date: Friday, January 28, 2000

S1

Sometime if I really listen I can here the nonsense in what he says but it still hurts and that hurt prevents rational thinking. My mate not only echoes what I say at that time but will remember and use it at a later time. It is all so hopeless. I have recently had a brush with cancer. I get no support from him. He says his heart attack 5 years ago is far more serious and that if I have a breast removed I will not only be fat but fat and deformed.

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Date: Friday, January 28, 2000

S1

Sometime if I really listen I can here the nonsense in what he says but it still hurts and that hurt prevents rational thinking. My mate no only echoes what I say at that time but will remember and use it at a later time. It is all so hopeless.

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Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2000

S1

Wow, this was exactly where I wanted to be. Your ability to phrase words is exactly what I needed. I know all of this stuff, but didn't know how to word it. Thank-you, Thank-you.

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Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2000

S1

Wow. I am abusing myself by staying up late because I am so emotionally upset by my current relationship and recurrent putting up with abusers. But this reading was worth it. It's all true. All you said and all I was feeling that forced me out of bed to do online research. It's all real.

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Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000

S1

Wow. I've been married for nearly 14 years...together almost 20. I'm 32 years old, my husband is 43. I've known something isn't right in this relationship for such a long time, but things always seem to cycle up and down. When I read this about the 'language difference' it was like I was reading something specifically about my husband. It's so sad. And no one I've spoken to has understood that he doesn't answer my questions. I just don't know how to deal with it, other than leave, anymore...but I really don't think I ever COULD leave...

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Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000

S1

EXTREMELY ENLIGHTENING.

ON TARGET EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.

QUIT WRITING ABOUT MY RELATIONSHIP, WILL YA!

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Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000

S1

What you said is right about abusers it has helped me to see more about the man I divorced what I would like to see in the courts is a better understanding of what the children go threw and what happens to some of them when one parent gets into another abusive relationship that continues to hurt the children I would like to see more info on children and abusive fathers we need to protect children better when you divorce an abuser it's great to know someone understands Thanks for the info.

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Date: Sunday, January 23, 2000

S1

I found the little article so-so. Apparently the "Judge" has never been in a verbally abusive relationship (no matter what he claims) but has only "passed on" what he learned in a Psychology course? The first paragraph sounds as if three different people had a hand in writing it. Verbal abuse can range from noticeable to little bits of sarcasm spoken at just the right time. I'm doing research for a book and found zero info here!

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Date: Monday, January 17, 2000

S1

The Judge is right on the money!!!!!

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Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000

S1

THANK YOU FOR HELPING MY SANITY. He is so manipulative that he had me wondering if he really did have the right to treat me how he does.....IT'S ABUSE and I'm not losing it.

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Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000

S1

nice not to think I'm crazy or just mean

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Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000

S1

HERE, HERE!! I COULDN'T HAVE SAID THIS ANY BETTER. THANK YOU FOR YOUR DIRECT INSIGHT. YOU HAVE ACHIEVED MY PERCEPTION OF THE SAME TYPE OF PERSON AND PUT IT INTO EXCELLENT WORDS. THANK YOU.

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Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000

S1

Would you please provide me with more of the "tricks" used by abusers? I could use them. Thanks

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Date: Friday, February 18, 2000

S1

Thank you so much. I totally understand what you are saying because the same things happened to me. My abuser identified my "hot" buttons (I like to rescue) and played the role. He did it because he wanted things from me (for me to cook, take him out to eat, buy him things). I didn't realize it until he slipped a couple of times when I bought something for my son and the abuser said, "....you didn't buy me a ....." Anyway, his charm and his "schtick," (feel sorry for me, I've had a hard life, take care of me....) soon turned to rage when I didn't give him what he wanted. He echoed, withheld sex, was extremely cold and distant....any comment from me that he didn't like would send him on his way (he said I reminded him of his ex-wife). I was truly walking on eggshells. The abuse was insidious. I didn't realize what was happening to me. He broke up with me three times in a year because he needed "space" but I later found out he was with other women. No honesty with me at all. Anyway....know I'm going on and on. My point is that abuse is often insidious....you know you feel terrible, are hurting, but don't always understand why. The abuser is very adept at making you feel like you're the problem, when in fact he is. The other key thing....and you said it with "MeMe"....is they are so, so self-absorbed. They are all that matters. They care little about how you feel unless it gets them what they want. They will be anything you want to get their needs met. If you don't meet them, they move on, dumping you and not caring if you hurt. They may even do it intentionally to hurt you. They may apologize later for the bad treatment, but it's only to relieve their own guilt so they feel better....so they can say they didn't do anything wrong. Thank you again, and best wishes to all the readers of this site!

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Date: Wednesday, March 01, 2000

S1

It is chilling to read about this but this information needs to be distributed. For years I was so frustrated because I could communicate with everyone except that one important person - my husband. All those techniques - especially of never answering except with a question. I felt like I was interrogated. Once I had foolishly tried to answer a long string of questions, it was easy for him to mock my answers or use my words to echo back in an accusing way. I was so naive, trying to communicate, when the other person only is trying to control and humiliate. Thank God I have escaped from this torture via my divorce.

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Date: Saturday, February 26, 2000

S1

Judge, Thank you! There are a lot of us out here. It helps alot to read what you have to say. Your story is simple and to the point and a direct hit. I have a 40 year abuse cycle that I am trying to disengage. It is hard to do. It takes many years to learn how to become a victim. In my case it started from birth. So now my whole life has to be re-invented or relearned. Every little piece of advice or knowledge is just a little piece of the jigsaw puzzle that is my life. Again, thank you for your contribution. Someday, I will have created a masterpiece of my life that only has the edges that need to be completed, an ongoing work of art so to speak.

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Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2000

S1

I was floored by this analysis of the abuser's language. I have no doubt that I was the partner who was trying to communicate with an abuser. I frequently said, "You're answering my question with a question." or "That is not an answer." Trying to understand an abuser is like trying to decipher a really, really tough riddle all the time. He would say things he would later regret. Be upset when I wouldn't have thoughts on his "confusion." The man I was involved with grew up with an alcoholic mother (he claims she's not an alcoholic anymore but then I see her still drinking), a father who ignored and didn't support his wife, a brother ten years older, and a very poor family. This man that I loved (I need to reestablish my boundaries and stick to them) says he's not an alcoholic, but then drinks 3 glasses of wine every night, or 3 beers every night, calls me at 1 a.m. on poker nights with the boys drunk. I confronted him with my concerns for his health and he said he knows he needs to work on some things but he's not an alcoholic. In one year and five months I broke up with him 3 times, this last time for good. I saw all the warning signs and ignored them and got burned. I have a tendency to be very idealistic, I see the good in people. I realized each time I wanted to know where our relationship was going he said he need some time to think about it. He was pushing me away. As long as I didn't ask him to reveal his cards about how he felt, everything was fine. The relationship was directionless. He would talk about how neat it was going to be to take our child to his/her first baseball game, how neat it will be to have his parents over for dinner at our place, etc... Promises, Promises. He said he would do anything to make the relationship work. When I would look for action, he came up short. He admitted to me he is afraid of commitment. We had love, and a lot in common, but there was no commitment to me or the relationship from him. He and I live 2 hours away from one another and when I said, "Maybe I'll move down to your city this summer (mind you I asked this while everything was going great between us), his response was, "Great!, But you'll get your own place, right?" It seemed that whenever I was feeling wonderful and accepted, he always did something that made me feel not totally as accepted as I thought. I felt like a yo-yo, a puppet. I felt like he kept putting carrots in front of me and each time I thought I would get the carrot, he'd yank it away. It was an emotional roller coaster I am glad to be off of. I felt as though he was punishing me by withholding exactly what he knew I wanted. He was punishing his mother through me. He told me she was distant when she was drunk, and wouldn't talk to him or his father for days. I experienced her emotional neglect twice. His father behaved as though nothing was wrong. Everyone in that family is good at avoiding whatever makes them feel unpleasant. No one shared how they felt. I felt the aura in their tiny little home. After looking at my past objectively I have discovered my own pattern. I know what I need to do, I need to work on me. I need to trust my instincts more when I see the warning signs. The little I know about his past relationships was that none lasted more than a year and a half. The first time I met his mother, she said to him while I was standing there, "She's a nice girl, should we tell her now that you are afraid of commitment." His cousin said, "It's nice to meet you, hope I'll see you next year for Christmas, but I doubt it." I feel so stupid, but I've learned that I am trying to recreate the environment I grew up in: my mother loving my father, doing everything for him, and he stepping all over her feelings by yelling at her. He was a verbal abuser. I learned from my mom that I have to earn and work very hard to win someone's love. Now that I am aware of this pattern, I feel like I have an exciting future ahead of me. This website and the Judge's analysis have been helpful beyond belief. I am very grateful to you. Thanks so much!

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Date: Sunday, March 12, 2000

S1

Reading this made so much sense to me. I have asked myself many times what he meant by this, why he said that. I never really understood that there is a real language barrier. I did not understand why he refused to talk to me, and why every issue turned into an attack. I have more insight now. Thank you so much.

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Date: Thursday, March 09, 2000

S1

You need more information on verbal abuse and also, the outcomes of abuse on children (psychological).

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Date: Monday, March 12, 2001

S1

you seem to overlook the fact that verbal abuse is prolific outside the circle of romantic partners soley. Father-daughter relationships are just as relevant

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Date: Tuesday, March 06, 2001

S1

This is like being told you are not going mad, or an evil person...one of my husbands tricks is to accuse me of being a "yap dog" and shouting "yap,yap yap" when I try to speak. All the rest I've read is so spot on too...I've come to the realisation that there is nothing I can do to change the situation, and I'm getting out.

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Date: Monday, March 05, 2001

S1

This is all new and eye-opening realization for me and this piece in partiucular struck home and made me see facets that are so obvious, but so easily accepted as being normal in an abusive relationship. Thanks Judge!!!_sunny

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Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001

S1

MY name is Susan. I'm in a very verbal abusive relationship. I get accused of everything and I get cussed at and he doesn't want to have sex with me. I'm at my end. I seek counseling but I get no relief from the pain he causes me deep down inside.

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Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2001

S1

My exhusband was emotionally abusive for years. He & my schizophrenic mother tried to run me out of my home, by isolating me. He is remarried & continues. I am very isolated, they made me lose the guy I loved, what can I do. I have a restraining order. I have lost all my friends ect..

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Date: Tuesday, February 27, 2001

S1

My exhusband was emotionally abusive for years. He & my schizophrenic mother tried to run me out of my home, by isolating. He is remarried & continues. I am very isolated, they made me lose the guy I loved, what can I do. I have a restraining order.